Circular membrane, PDE, separation of variables, coefficients.

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the oscillations of a circular membrane, specifically under two boundary conditions: one where the membrane is fixed at a radius \( r = a \) and another where it is free. The wave equation and separation of variables are central to the problem, with participants exploring the implications of the boundary conditions on the solution.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the form of the solution using separation of variables and the implications of boundary conditions on the coefficients involved. There is uncertainty about the nature of the constants \( A_{mn}, B_{mn}, C_{mn}, D_{mn} \) and how they relate to the infinite series representation of the solution.

Discussion Status

Some participants have confirmed that the value of the Bessel function at the boundary condition leads to a scenario where any values for the constants could potentially be solutions. This has prompted further exploration of the implications of such flexibility in the constants.

Contextual Notes

There is an ongoing discussion about the nature of the constants in the solution and how they relate to the physical interpretation of the oscillations, particularly regarding amplitude and the implications of having multiple solutions.

fluidistic
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Homework Statement


I must find the oscillations of a circular membrane (drum-like).
1)With the boundary condition that the membrane is fixed at r=a.
2)That the membrane is free.



Homework Equations



The wave equation \frac{\partial ^2 u }{\partial t^2 } - c^2 \triangle u =0.
Separation of variables, u(r, \theta , t ) = R(r)\Theta (\theta ) T(t).

The Attempt at a Solution


I've basically followed wikipedia's article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibrations_of_a_circular_membrane#The_general_case and reached exactly the same solution, namely u_{mn}(r, \theta, t) = \left(A\cos c\lambda_{mn} t + B\sin c\lambda_{mn} t\right)J_m\left(\lambda_{mn} r\right)(C\cos m\theta + D \sin m\theta). This would be the eigenfunctions. m goes from 0 to infinity (and is an integer) and n goes from 1 to infinity and is an integer too. Also \lambda _{mn} is the n-th root of the Bessel function of the first kind of order m divided by the radius "a".
Now the solution that satisfies the boundary condition u(a ,\theta , t )=0 should be an infinite linear combination of the eigenfunctions. The problem is that I am not sure of the following:
u(a, \theta , t )=0 \Rightarrow \sum _{m=0}^\infty \sum _{n=1}^\infty \left(A_{mn}\cos c\lambda_{mn} t + B_{mn}\sin c\lambda_{mn} t\right)J_m\left(\lambda_{mn} a\right)(C_{mn}\cos m\theta + D_{mn} \sin m\theta)=0, \forall t and \forall \theta.
In other words I am not sure whether there are so many constants and if there are 2 infinite series as I believe.
If this is right, I'd like some tip to get all those A_{mn}'s, B_{mn}'s, C_{mn}'s and D_{mn}'s. I do not see any trick to get them.

Edit: The infinite series result is pretty obvious because J_m(\lambda _{mn} a) is the Bessel function evaluated in its zero, which gives zero. And this term appears in every term of the infinite series. Thus I do not know how to get the constants I'm looking for.
I've no idea how to find them.
 
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fluidistic said:
\lambda _{mn} is the n-th root of the Bessel function of the first kind of order m divided by the radius "a".
\sum _{m=0}^\infty \sum _{n=1}^\infty \left(A_{mn}\cos c\lambda_{mn} t + B_{mn}\sin c\lambda_{mn} t\right)J_m\left(\lambda_{mn} a\right)(C_{mn}\cos m\theta + D_{mn} \sin m\theta)=0, \forall t and \forall \theta.
Given that \lambda _{mn} is the n-th root of Jm divided by the radius "a", what would the value of J_m\left(\lambda_{mn} a\right) be?
 
haruspex said:
Given that \lambda _{mn} is the n-th root of Jm divided by the radius "a", what would the value of J_m\left(\lambda_{mn} a\right) be?

0 like I wrote in the edit part of my 1st post? This would imply that any value for A_{mn}, B_{mn}, etc. would work. Is this right?
 
fluidistic said:
0 like I wrote in the edit part of my 1st post?
Yes. (When did you do that? I don't think it was there when I made my post.)
This would imply that any value for A_{mn}, B_{mn}, etc. would work. Is this right?
Yes, all the possible values of the constants are solutions.
 
haruspex said:
Yes. (When did you do that? I don't think it was there when I made my post.)
Probably 2 minutes after writing my post.
Yes, all the possible values of the constants are solutions.
Oh wow, I'm surprised. I guess I should not and this basically mean that the waves can have any amplitude or something like that.
Thanks for the comment, I did not know.
 
fluidistic said:
Probably 2 minutes after writing my post.
Ok - I must have skimmed over it in reading. Sorry about that.
 

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