Complex Summation: Understanding Discrete Time Function

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    Complex Summation
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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a complex summation related to a discrete time function, specifically focusing on manipulating a fraction that arises from a summation formula. The original poster expresses difficulty in achieving a closed form solution, particularly when evaluating the function at specific integer values of k.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore various manipulations of the fraction, including factoring techniques and limits. Questions arise about handling the indeterminate form 0/0 when k equals certain values.

Discussion Status

Some participants have suggested using l'Hospital's rule to evaluate limits at points where the function is indeterminate. Others propose returning to the original summation to demonstrate the behavior of the function at specific k values. There is an ongoing exploration of different interpretations and approaches without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that k is always an integer and that the problem involves a discrete time function, which may impose specific constraints on the evaluation of the summation.

WolfOfTheSteps
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This is not really a homework problem, but I'm studying a text, and I came across this:

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/4586/sumh.jpg

I know how to get that fraction with the exponents in it (using a summation formula). But for the life of me, I can't figure out how to manipulate that fraction to give the final result.

For example, if I put k=0 into that fraction, I get 0/0, not 5. I tried a bunch of manipulation of the fraction to get sines and cosines, and make the denominator real, but I still can't get a closed form solution that gives the final result.

What am I missing?

Thanks!

UPDATE: Forgot to mention, this is a discrete time function. k is always an integer.
 
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I totally forgot about that factoring trick:

<br /> 1-e^{-j x} = e^{-j x/2}(e^{j x/2}-e^{-j x/2}) = e^{-j x/2}jsin(x/2)<br />

That's all I needed!

UPDATE:

Wait, I was wrong. :frown: :frown:

Even with that factoring trick, I get:

<br /> e^{-j(\pi k-\pi k/5)}*sin(\pi k)/sin(\pi k/5)<br />

But this is still 0/0 for k=0. How do I get the real result?? I'm so frustrated with this! :confused:
 
Last edited:
No matter what k is, the top is 0. If k is not 0,+/-5,+/-10,..., then the bottom is not 0, so that is how they get 0 for otherwise. For k=0,+/-5,+/-10,..., you need to find the limit as k approaches those values, because 0/0 has no meaning. Use l'Hospital's rule to evaluate your function at those points.
 
n!kofeyn said:
No matter what k is, the top is 0. If k is not 0,+/-5,+/-10,..., then the bottom is not 0, so that is how they get 0 for otherwise. For k=0,+/-5,+/-10,..., you need to find the limit as k approaches those values, because 0/0 has no meaning. Use l'Hospital's rule to evaluate your function at those points.

Thanks, that makes sense.

Also, instead of going to L'Hospital's rule, I could just go back to the summation for k=0,+-5, etc and show that it is a summation of ones... while the fraction would prove the "0 otherwise" for the other k values. This would work too.

Thanks a lot!
 
No problem. Yea, you're right about the summation giving you the five.
 

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