Conceptual Question on Current

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    Conceptual Current
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of a charged insulator in the vicinity of a current-carrying wire, particularly focusing on the interactions between the wire, the insulator, and a nearby magnet. The scope includes conceptual understanding of electric and magnetic fields, as well as the effects of these fields on charged objects.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the electrons in the current could attract the insulator due to the presence of a magnetic field generated by the current.
  • Others argue that the insulator will experience an induced electric field if the current is alternating, but this may not apply in a direct current (DC) scenario.
  • One participant suggests that the wire can be treated as an infinite charged plane, which could create an electric field strong enough to move the insulator.
  • Another participant counters that the wire is not analogous to a charged infinite plane but rather to an infinite charged line, emphasizing the differences in electric field behavior.
  • It is mentioned that the charged insulator will move towards the wire due to polarization effects, resulting in an attractive force, which was supported by experimental evidence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the electric field produced by the wire and its effects on the insulator. There is no consensus on whether the insulator will move or the mechanisms behind its potential movement, indicating ongoing debate.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their assumptions regarding the nature of the wire's charge and the configuration of the electric and magnetic fields. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of the experimental evidence presented.

Grapz
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Consider a wire, with current flowing through it.
A small light insulator is brought close to the wire. The insulator has positive charge on its right end and a negative charge on its left end. But there is no net charge, it is neutral.

What happens? Does the electrons in the current attract the insulator?
 
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Grapz said:
Consider a wire, with current flowing through it.
A small light insulator is brought close to the wire. The insulator has positive charge on its right end and a negative charge on its left end. But there is no net charge, it is neutral.

What happens? Does the electrons in the current attract the insulator?

A current will produce a magnetic field around it. The direction of the magnetic field is given by the right hand rule. The magnetic field will only produce an EMF if it is changing. Thus if the current is AC then the current will induce a sinusoidal EMF in the insulation. The elections in the insulator will only flow in large numbers if that EMF exceeds the break down voltage of the insulator.
 
Hmm okay. Well that is a much deeper explanation. But this was the original question. And we assume it is DC circuit

You have a current going into the page. You have a magnet close to the wire, and a insulator with + and - Q at either ends, and you have neutral copper metal near the wire.

The choices were:

a) North pole of magnet faces magnetic field, insulator is attracted, copper dont' move
b) North pole of magnet faces magnetic field, insulator doens't move and copper doesnt' move either.

I said insulator moves, because the wire can be thought of as an infinite charged plane, thus creating a small electric field powerful enough to move a light insulator
 
The wire is certainly not similar to a charged infinite plane, since it is one dimensional. An infinite charged line would be a better aproximation. The electric field of a charged line is propotional to 1/r, much different than constant field of a plane.

But in your case the wire is not even charged. If electrons travel through, it does not mean that the net charge is negative: the are still stationary protons there and their positive charge exactly compensates the electrons' charge.

A conductive material can theoreticly have a non zero net charge (if it has a finite capacity and voltage relative to infinity), but a thin wire has virtually no capacity: if you integrate the electric field 1/r, you find out that integral (ln (r)) diverges when the starting radious aproaches zero.
 
The answer is that the charged insulator will also move. Proved experimentally. The prof also gave a explanation:


The charged insulator rod will move towards the wire because it will polarize the wire, resulting in an attractive force between the wire and the charged rod. The bar magnet will rotate counterclockwise to align along a tangent to a circle whose centre is at the wire. North points in the direction of the magnetic field vector.
 

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