Confused about the absolute value of a complex number

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of the absolute value of complex numbers, particularly the relationship between the modulus of a complex number and its representation in terms of real numbers. Participants explore definitions, mathematical properties, and comparisons to other number systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that for a complex number z = x + iy, the formula |z|^2 = x^2 + y^2 is given in their book, but they express confusion over the general definition of absolute value leading to a different expression.
  • Another participant clarifies that |x| = sqrt(x^2) is applicable only for real numbers and suggests viewing complex numbers as tuples of real numbers, leading to a general formula for the norm.
  • A third participant notes that in complex analysis, |z| is referred to as the modulus and emphasizes that the complex field cannot generalize the real absolute value, instead defining |z| = sqrt(x^2 + y^2).
  • Some participants engage in a back-and-forth regarding the definitions of absolute value and modulus, with one pointing out that the definition of |z| is consistent with the real absolute value when y = 0.
  • A later post expands the discussion to include quaternions and higher-dimensional spaces, explaining how the concept of absolute value extends to these systems while maintaining a similar structure.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and implications of absolute value in complex numbers, with no clear consensus reached on the interpretations or the mathematical expressions involved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight limitations in the generalization of absolute value from real to complex numbers, noting the complexities introduced by the imaginary component and the nature of the complex field.

torquerotates
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Let z be the complex number: x+iy. Then |z|^2=x^2+y^2 according to my book. But according to the general definition of absolute value, |a|=(a^2)^.5. So letting z=a=x+iy. |z|^2=z^2=x^2+2ixy-y^2

This is not equal to x^2+y^2. I'm confused.
 
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|x| = \sqrt{x^2} is only true for x \in \mathbb{R}. You can think of Complex numbers as a 2-tuple of Reals.

In general

if

x = (x_1, x_2, ..., x_n)

then

|x| = \left(x_1^2 + x_2^2 + ... + x_n^2\right)^{\frac{1}{2}}

This might be of interest to you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norm_(mathematics)#Euclidean_norm
 
Last edited:
In complex analysis |z| is called the the modulus. Since the complex field is not well ordered (meaning we can't say stuff like 3<5) then we cannot generalize the real value absolute value into the complex field. Instead we define |z| = Sqrt[x^2 + y^2]. This is consistent with the real valued absolute value when y = 0.
 
PowerIso said:
In complex analysis |z| is called the the modulus.
"absolue value" and "norm" are frequently used too.


cannot generalize the real value absolute value into the complex field.
But, but, you just did! See:

Instead we define |z| = Sqrt[x^2 + y^2]. This is consistent with the real valued absolute value when y = 0.
 
torquerotates said:
Let z be the complex number: x+iy. Then |z|^2=x^2+y^2 according to my book. But according to the general definition of absolute value, |a|=(a^2)^.5. So letting z=a=x+iy. |z|^2=z^2=x^2+2ixy-y^2

This is not equal to x^2+y^2. I'm confused.

The idea of the absolute value is related to the (Euclidean) distance of the point. That means, if we treat each component as a dimension in boring-old R^n, the absolute value is the distance from the point in question from the origin. This is the definition you should start with.

For reals, we don't have any complex part, so we're really working on R^1. Take any point x. The absolute value of x, |x|, is the distance between x and 0. In other words, sqrt(x^2).

For the complex numbers, we have another component, the imaginary part, as well as the real part. Take any point c. The absolute value of c, |c|, is the distance between c and 0. We're working in R^2 now, so we use the pythagorean theorem or the distance formula or whatever you want to call it. |c| = |a + bi| = sqrt(a^2 + b^2).

Now, there are other things for which this definition continues to work, too. Quaternions are a system of numbers where we have THREE complex values, i, j, and k, which are all distinct and unique. They satisfy a few interesting properties: i*i = j*j = k*k = i*j*k = -1. Like matrices, quaternions don't commutative on multiplication, and for any two quaternions p and q, q*p need not equal p*q. But the full details aren't important.

Take any quaternion q = x + a*i + b*j + c*k. We have two use four components now, as opposed to 2 for the complex numbers and only 1 for the reals. So we're working with distance in R^4. The formula for distance in R^4 follows suit with R^2: it is the root of the sum of the squares. So |q| = |x + a*i + b*j + c*k| = sqrt(x^2 + a^2 + b^2 + c^2).

It's like magic!

We can even use weirder spaces, such as the linear space of polynomials. The polynomials are functions defined like f(x) = a_n x^n + ... + a_1 x_1 + a_0. We can add two polynomials f and g together to create a new polynomial f+g defined by (f+g)(x) = f(x) + g(x). We can also multiply a polynomial f with a scalar a to get a new polynomial a*f defined by (a*f)(x) = a * f(x).

We can define the "absolute value" of a polynomial (we might call it a "norm" instead) in the exact same way! Any polynomial of order n (where the highest exponent of x is x^n) is defined uniquely by n+1 real numbers. So |f| = |x -> a_n x^n + ... + a_1 x + a_0| = sqrt(a_n^2 + ... + a_1^2 + a_0^2).

So when you think of |x| for a real x as sqrt(x^2), remember that this is only because real numbers only have one real component (themselves). For higher-dimensional objects, you'll have the more general form |x| = sqrt(a_0^2 + a_1^2 + ... + a_n^2).
 

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