Confused between Physics and Computer Science

[Yashbhatt]

Hello! I am a first year student studying Physics. I chose Physics because I really like it.

But now that my classes have started, Physics seems a little more demanding than what I previously had in mind.

I am also keenly interested in Computer Science. So, I can't decide between the two right now.

It would be great if any members can help me out with it. (If possible, please share your experience, daily life etc. as a physicist or as a software engineer, IT professional etc.)

 

[ChrisVer]

Physics seems a little more demanding than what I previously had in mind

Every start is a difficult one... if you put more effort at the beginning it will become better with time. As long as "I really like it" is there, I guess you can overcome the obstacles. Generally I consider every natural science or maths is like that...

What did you have in mind?

I am also keenly interested in Computer Science.

I am not familiar with Computer Science studies... but I know that they also don't have a relaxing weekend at least, a friend who studied it would spend several nights awake trying to finish projects. I had become her second best friend, overthrown by coffee...

 

[QuantumQuest]

Hello! I am a first year student studying Physics. I chose Physics because I really like it.

But now that my classes have started, Physics seems a little more demanding than what I previously had in mind.

I am also keenly interested in Computer Science. So, I can't decide between the two right now.

It would be great if any members can help me out with it. (If possible, please share your experience, daily life etc. as a physicist or as a software engineer, IT professional etc.)

The whole thing, really boils down to what you really want to do and be willing to spend your time and efforts on it.

As a software developer, I can assure you that this is demanding too. Maybe in different ways compared to Physics, but it is nonetheless. Spending countless hours in designing, planning, developing, testing and maintaining software, is not an easy thing to do. You must really like it, to do it correctly and not quit the whole thing at some time. You definitely have to learn to think in specific ways i.e "think like a programmer". For me, web development and Java world are my main things, but I work with other languages too, especially C and its "family" in the broad sense. I really like Physics too, but I'm mostly self taught in higher theoretical concepts. And no doubt, it is way more demanding regarding intellectual efforts but this is the different way I previously talked about but anyway, being a good theoretical physicist, is not something achievable for anyone. Being a good developer or software engineer goes in similar fashion albeit in its own way.

My advice is to think about what you're really interested at, to give some reading and searching the net and make up your mind about what to follow later.

 

[Yashbhatt]

Every start is a difficult one... if you put more effort at the beginning it will become better with time. As long as "I really like it" is there, I guess you can overcome the obstacles.

What did you have in mind?I am not familiar with Computer Science studies... but I know that they also don't have a relaxing weekend at least, a friend who studied it would spend several nights awake trying to finish projects.

Yeah I get that. I am interested in both. Apart from Physics being more demanding, I am also starting to feel that a job in Physics is difficult to get and the lifestyle is not that good as compared to someone in software. ( I can't tell this for sure but this seems to be the general consensus).

 

[Yashbhatt]

The whole thing, really boils down to what you really want to do and be willing to spend your time and efforts on it.

As a software developer, I can assure you that this is demanding too. Maybe in different ways compared to Physics, but it is nonetheless. Spending countless hours in designing, planning, developing, testing and maintaining software, is not an easy thing to do. You must really like it, to do it correctly and not quit the whole thing at some time. You definitely have to learn to think in specific ways i.e "think like a programmer". For me, web development and Java world are my main things, but I work with other languages too, especially C and its "family" in the broad sense. I really like Physics too, but I'm mostly self taught in higher theoretical concepts. And no doubt, it is way more demanding regarding intellectual efforts but this is the different way I previously talked about but anyway, being a good theoretical physicist, is not something achievable for anyone. Being a good developer or software engineer goes in similar fashion albeit in its own way.

My advice is to think about what you're really interested at, to give some reading and searching the net and make up your mind about what to follow later.

I appreciate your advice. I would like to now more about how your lifestyle compares to someone in Physics academia. (Workload, pay, what's a typical day like?)

 

[ChrisVer]

Apart from Physics being more demanding, I am also starting to feel that a job in Physics is difficult to get

the lifestyle is not that good as compared to someone in software.

One important thing is it's not like you can't jump to Computer Sciences from physics. Physics is not only string theories and abstract maths... Also it's not really like that every physicist will be a theoretician (not that they do nothing with computers!)... being able to work with applied sciences and so computers is a very important part of our jobs (whether you want to work in academia or leave it).

Now the job opportunities when leaving are pretty much the same as everyone else... even as a computer scientist, when you will look at job adverts you will find out that companies ask for extremely specialized requirements that you are not supposed to learn at any college or anything- they ask for what they dream to get and not what they'll actually get- so in general you play with your rest "pros" (like having worked in the past etc). So you play on the same board as a physicist who can show that he is capable of learning.

As for lifestyle it is a subjective thing (and regional as well)... Physicists and computer scientists may not have a fixed working schedule (but I like it) or may have ups and downs with and without works. For example there are programmers who were working for companies (in order to survive) and also achieved to live by donations from people who liked their applications... Academia or working as an IT for a multicorporational company can give you the opportunity to travel around (which I also like), but this can affect your plans of having a family. Money again depends on where you work, for whom you work and your abilities.

 

[QuantumQuest]

I appreciate your advice. I would like to now more about how your lifestyle compares to someone in Physics academia. (Workload, pay, what's a typical day like?)

Things have dramatically change due to economic crisis in my country, for the last seven years or so and this has been a snowball to jobs and especially the IT related. So, workload and pay, have taken an almost free fall. Anyway, what matters to you, is what will all these be in your country. And recalling from what the things were, as long as the "good times" were rolling, there were enough workload and a typical day had coding and testing for software applications already running at some companies and new projects showing often enough. About 12 hours at average were spent on these activities every day. As for lifestyle, this is adapted to job needs but it is good in my opinion.

 

[MarneMath]

Well, you don't have to decide anytime soon. It's rather feasible for you to double major while in college in both of these fields (although it may be stressful). Nevertheless, the more important questions is what to do you want to do for a living? What type of problems interest you the most? These questions are probably hard to answer for you now, but my advice is to attend a lot of lectures/seminars in both fields and see which ones get you most excited. I think you'll probably fine that even if you like both, that one will motivate you more.

Secondly, get an internship and research experience. See which one interest you the most and what environment makes you feel most at home. For me personally, I never felt comfortable in labs or writing academic papers. On the other hand, I feel rather confident standing in front of a board of executives selling my ideas for a higher a budget. Other people are the reserve, but the key fact is that you can't really tell until you experience it and you can't know what you like until you know what's out there.

 

[ChrisVer]

Coming from Greece, I can tell you that a physicist cannot find a job there as a physicist (except for being a teacher).
In any case, the income is pretty low (for everything).
So the only way out is for searching for alternatives (A phase that the whole world is going through)... where you have to be able to do more than 1 jobs in your lifetime.

 

[StatGuy2000]

Coming from Greece, I can tell you that a physicist cannot find a job there as a physicist (except for being a teacher).
In any case, the income is pretty low (for everything).
So the only way out is for searching for alternatives (A phase that the whole world is going through)... where you have to be able to do more than 1 jobs in your lifetime.

As an aside, I think it would be fair to say that the Greek economy is in shambles and that the majority of the population now live essentially in poverty, with unemployment in the double-digits, and likely to remain so for decades to come. And many educated Greeks are emigrating in droves.

QuantumQuest, ChrisVer, are my statements above accurate?

 

[Yashbhatt]

Well, you don't have to decide anytime soon. It's rather feasible for you to double major while in college in both of these fields (although it may be stressful). Nevertheless, the more important questions is what to do you want to do for a living? What type of problems interest you the most? These questions are probably hard to answer for you now, but my advice is to attend a lot of lectures/seminars in both fields and see which ones get you most excited. I think you'll probably fine that even if you like both, that one will motivate you more.

Secondly, get an internship and research experience. See which one interest you the most and what environment makes you feel most at home. For me personally, I never felt comfortable in labs or writing academic papers. On the other hand, I feel rather confident standing in front of a board of executives selling my ideas for a higher a budget. Other people are the reserve, but the key fact is that you can't really tell until you experience it and you can't know what you like until you know what's out there.

It's different here in India. You have to declare your major before the start of the course(it's a 3-year program). Things like double-major are rare and offered in selected universities.

 

[StatGuy2000]

It's different here in India. You have to declare your major before the start of the course(it's a 3-year program). Things like double-major are rare and offered in selected universities.

Yashbhatt, here's a question for you. How easily can you change your major subject in your university in India? You stated that you are a first year physics student. My understanding is that Indian universities rely heavily on entrance examinations to be guaranteed placement, and once in, a student chooses his/her major and must complete that major no matter what.

Also, do you have any opportunities to take elective courses? For example, even if you graduate with a physics degree, do you have options to take extensive courses in computer science, so that you could pursue graduate programs in computer science?

 

[ChrisVer]

As an aside, I think it would be fair to say that the Greek economy is in shambles and that the majority of the population now live essentially in poverty, with unemployment in the double-digits, and likely to remain so for decades to come. And many educated Greeks are emigrating in droves.

Well, I just want to remain realistic and on my occupation (physics related jobs)... the only jobs being on becoming a teacher and stuff was true even before the crisis hit... Computer sciences may be different (they might have received a strike from the whole situation)... The alternatives (as a physicist) are to do something on economics and logistics (so you could find a job in a bank or something) and maybe at a hospital (for radiations and stuff)... all these of course are very competitive since positions are limited and not so physics-related... paid-research [like phd] is almost absent (phd students will most likely be working for free or have very low funding from a scholarship), something that is also true elsewhere (like UK), and research positions are limited around closed circles. So for me, emigration was in my plans since the golden era (not to say that I don't like doing research harbored on a stable land, but I like changes)

 

[QuantumQuest]

As an aside, I think it would be fair to say that the Greek economy is in shambles and that the majority of the population now live essentially in poverty, with unemployment in the double-digits, and likely to remain so for decades to come. And many educated Greeks are emigrating in droves.

I agree. This is more or less the situation. Sad thing is that I see no sign of recovery and no investments entering the country - "how can something like this happen in such conditions?" every reasonable person would ask. There's no point for educated people to seek jobs here anymore. I don't know how long it will last, but it's definitely a tough thing for all of us.

 

[Yashbhatt]

Yashbhatt, here's a question for you. How easily can you change your major subject in your university in India? You stated that you are a first year physics student. My understanding is that Indian universities rely heavily on entrance examinations to be guaranteed placement, and once in, a student chooses his/her major and must complete that major no matter what.

Also, do you have any opportunities to take elective courses? For example, even if you graduate with a physics degree, do you have options to take extensive courses in computer science, so that you could pursue graduate programs in computer science?

Taking it up as an elective isn't that rewarding. They just teach you some basics of C, Java etc. for a year or so.

Changing majors is ridiculously difficult in between. Most universities including mine don't allow it. I would have to drop a year to change my course.

 

[StatGuy2000]

Taking it up as an elective isn't that rewarding. They just teach you some basics of C, Java etc. for a year or so.

Changing majors is ridiculously difficult in between. Most universities including mine don't allow it. I would have to drop a year to change my course.

Sounds to me that the Indian university system is very inflexible. I was going to advise you to take as many technical electives as possible (e.g. computer science, mathematics, etc.) so that you will have the option of pursuing computer science as a graduate degree.

Does your university not have academic counselors that can advise you of your concerns? Have you spoken to anyone within your department about your concerns about employability? That would be the best advice any of us can give.

 

[Yashbhatt]

Sounds to me that the Indian university system is very inflexible. I was going to advise you to take as many technical electives as possible (e.g. computer science, mathematics, etc.) so that you will have the option of pursuing computer science as a graduate degree.

Does your university not have academic counselors that can advise you of your concerns? Have you spoken to anyone within your department about your concerns about employability? That would be the best advice any of us can give.

No. I doubt if the university has academic counselors.

I am not as much worried about employability as I am about the kind of job I would be doing. I don't want a stagnant, boring worklife.

 

[StatGuy2000]

No. I doubt if the university has academic counselors.

Then where do students at your university go if they have specific questions about their program or their field of study? I doubt that even in a society like India would have no support whatsoever for their students .

I am not as much worried about employability as I am about the kind of job I would be doing. I don't want a stagnant, boring worklife.

A stagnant, boring work life has very little to do with your academic degree and has much more to do with the specific employer and the particular job at said employer. You can have either physics or computer science graduates who have either a stagnant work life or a stimulating, fulfilling work life.

 

[Yashbhatt]

A stagnant, boring work life has very little to do with your academic degree and has much more to do with the specific employer and the particular job at said employer. You can have either physics or computer science graduates who have either a stagnant work life or a stimulating, fulfilling work life.

Okay. I shall I see if I can get transferred to some university where I can double major in Physics and Computer Science. But I will have to probably wait for a year then.

Although, this might be subjective, I feel that getting employed at a decent place and doing interesting work is much easier in case of Computer Science. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[ChrisVer]

decent place

subjective to the place

doing interesting work

extremely subjective- what is interesting? and what is boring?
Put me in front of a table of mirrors and lasers and I will get bored in half an hour...within an hour I'll be laughing of unneasiness and boredom... and then I'll start crying because the laughter didn't help me out...

I don't know, how do you think it works out?
1. you get a degree and you are placed to some working environment without your consent?
2. you get a degree, major to something of your choice and then keep working on it, or on something similar...
the 2nd is most of the times the case - you decide for your job...so you decide whether what you're doing is driving you crazy-bored or if it's fulfilling your needs.

What are your thoughts on this?

I disagree...I agree with the comment above: you can have both compscis and physicists having both types of jobs..

 

[Yashbhatt]

subjective to the placeextremely subjective- what is interesting? and what is boring?
Put me in front of a table of mirrors and lasers and I will get bored in half an hour...within an hour I'll be laughing of unneasiness and boredom... and then I'll start crying because the laughter didn't help me out...

I don't know, how do you think it works out?
1. you get a degree and you are placed to some working environment without your consent?
2. you get a degree, major to something of your choice and then keep working on it, or on something similar...
the 2nd is most of the times the case - you decide for your job...so you decide whether what you're doing is driving you crazy-bored or if it's fulfilling your needs.I disagree...I agree with the comment above: you can have both compscis and physicists having both types of jobs..

Is it possible to switch to Computer Science for Masters after a Bachelors in Physics?

 

[Yashbhatt]

Then where do students at your university go if they have specific questions about their program or their field of study? I doubt that even in a society like India would have no support whatsoever for their students .
A stagnant, boring work life has very little to do with your academic degree and has much more to do with the specific employer and the particular job at said employer. You can have either physics or computer science graduates who have either a stagnant work life or a stimulating, fulfilling work life.

Is it possible to switch to Computer Science for Masters after a Bachelors in Physics?

 

[StatGuy2000]

Is it possible to switch to Computer Science for Masters after a Bachelors in Physics?

The simple answer to your question is that, yes, it is possible to switch to computer science for your Masters or your PhD after a Bachelors in physics.

That being said, much depends on your undergraduate physics curriculum and what is taught, as well as the specific requirements for the graduate programs you intend to apply to.

Question #1: Do you intend to pursue your graduate studies in computer science in India, or outside of India (e.g. US, Canada, Australia, UK, etc.)? Because different schools in different countries may have different requirements.

Question #2: How many electives outside of physics (and math) are you allowed to take? If you're limited in what you can take as far as computer science courses, are you able to take more math courses relevant to compute science (e.g. discrete math, combinatorics, etc.)?

Question #3: The above questions are the exact type of questions that an academic advisor would be able to tell you. In Western countries, every university has such an advisor, or you could ask a professor who can provide at least some guidance. Is there no one you could ask in your university? Can you not speak to, say, the head of the department or your professors? Even if they don't know the answer themselves, they could direct you to someone who can? Or do Indian students not interact with their professors?

 

[ChrisVer]

Is it possible to switch to Computer Science for Masters after a Bachelors in Physics?

of course it's possible... especially after the Masters you can go for a CompSci related phd for example (or other jobs)...
From my case the Comp sci-related courses were the following at my institutes:
1. FORTRAN, C and... ehmmm Pascal (gladly this was removed in the later years!)... at the programming course in my BSc's first year.
2. Matlab for a course in non-linear dynamics during my major
3. More Matlab at computational physics (I didn't take that course-but it was there... I did comp physics later by myself to play with some python code in physical problems)
I also had the chance to do some internship associated with programming for my BSc but I decided not to (for personal/time reasons)
4. C++ in High energy physics in a master course
5. Had to use C++ for another master course (on probabilities and statistical analysis)
6. I used programming in C++ (where I learned most of it) to progress with my internship.
7. For my master thesis I worked with Python and C++
Learning to program can also help you for your lab reports throughout your years...
Of course the internet and your personal devotion can help you (eg learn languages in online course or use github) in order to be able and fill up your knowledge.

 

[Vanadium 50]

ChrisVer, that's not what is covered in a CS program. CS isn't about learning a bunch of languages. It's about learning abstractions like data structures, algorithm design, etc.

 

[Yashbhatt]

The simple answer to your question is that, yes, it is possible to switch to computer science for your Masters or your PhD after a Bachelors in physics.

That being said, much depends on your undergraduate physics curriculum and what is taught, as well as the specific requirements for the graduate programs you intend to apply to.

Question #1: Do you intend to pursue your graduate studies in computer science in India, or outside of India (e.g. US, Canada, Australia, UK, etc.)? Because different schools in different countries may have different requirements.

Question #2: How many electives outside of physics (and math) are you allowed to take? If you're limited in what you can take as far as computer science courses, are you able to take more math courses relevant to compute science (e.g. discrete math, combinatorics, etc.)?

Question #3: The above questions are the exact type of questions that an academic advisor would be able to tell you. In Western countries, every university has such an advisor, or you could ask a professor who can provide at least some guidance. Is there no one you could ask in your university? Can you not speak to, say, the head of the department or your professors? Even if they don't know the answer themselves, they could direct you to someone who can? Or do Indian students not interact with their professors?

As far as I can tell, for now, the course structure is pretty rigid. Computer Science wasn't offered as an elective. My subjects currently are Physics, Math and Statistics.

of course it's possible... especially after the Masters you can go for a CompSci related phd for example (or other jobs)...
From my case the Comp sci-related courses were the following at my institutes:
1. FORTRAN, C and... ehmmm Pascal (gladly this was removed in the later years!)... at the programming course in my BSc's first year.
2. Matlab for a course in non-linear dynamics during my major
3. More Matlab at computational physics (I didn't take that course-but it was there... I did comp physics later by myself to play with some python code in physical problems)
I also had the chance to do some internship associated with programming for my BSc but I decided not to (for personal/time reasons)
4. C++ in High energy physics in a master course
5. Had to use C++ for another master course (on probabilities and statistical analysis)
6. I used programming in C++ (where I learned most of it) to progress with my internship.
7. For my master thesis I worked with Python and C++
Learning to program can also help you for your lab reports throughout your years...
Of course the internet and your personal devotion can help you (eg learn languages in online course or use github) in order to be able and fill up your knowledge.

ChrisVer, that's not what is covered in a CS program. CS isn't about learning a bunch of languages. It's about learning abstractions like data structures, algorithm design, etc.

I have been taking online courses on Coursera about Python. But I doubt the validity of those online course certificates in proving that I know about Computer Science.

 

[micromass]

I have been taking online courses on Coursera about Python. But I doubt the validity of those online course certificates in proving that I know about Computer Science.

It's good that you have the knowledge, but the certificates are completely worthless.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I have been taking online courses on Coursera about Python. But I doubt the validity of those online course certificates in proving that I know about Computer Science.

I wrote that Computer Science is not about learning a bunch of languages. It's about learning abstractions like data structures, algorithm design, etc.

 

[Yashbhatt]

It's good that you have the knowledge, but the certificates are completely worthless.

That is where the problem lies.

I wrote that Computer Science is not about learning a bunch of languages. It's about learning abstractions like data structures, algorithm design, etc.

I know. There are courses and books for learning those things as well but while applying for Masters, I don't know how I can prove that I know those things.

 

[ChrisVer]

I wrote that Computer Science is not about learning a bunch of languages. It's about learning abstractions like data structures, algorithm design, etc.

I don't understand what you mean there- you can't work with any language without knowing how to design an algorithm or how to work with data structures or even knowing how the computer basically works to make things as optimal as possible...
The only differences I've seen to learning languages are that (as a comp sci) you gain other skills such as hardware or networks...

but the certificates are completely worthless.

I tend to disagree... more or less they are proofs (which you can show) for two things...
1) you have some basic knowledge on the topic
2) you are not a lazy person, who is just sitting around doing nothing, but "search into it".
A friend of mine was helped for a job by the No2... They can be as good as having a project on github.
I can easily write on my CV I know the x,y,z ...but it's always good to be able to prove it with some certified paper.

 

[MarneMath]

I disagree with your second point. You can learn a language without a good understanding of algorithm design. It's difference between good efficient code and naive code. Compare the performance between

def russian_math(a,b):
   x = a; y = b; z = 0
   while x>0:
       if x%2 == 1: z = z + y
       y = y << 1
       x = x >> 1
    return z

and

def stupidway(a, b):
   x = a
    y = b
    z = 0
    while x > 0:
        z = z + y
        x = x - 1
    return z

The difference between both run time is rather amazing. Knowing solid algorithm design, and complexity, is generally the difference between code that "works" and code that "works well".

As for point 2. I think that mainly helps if you already have a job in a related field. If someone came to be with Coursera Big Data certificate but no prior experience and worked in a non-stem field/degree in a non-stem field, I would be hesitant to move forward with anything. However, if an engineer came to me with that and showed solid understanding, I may consider an entry level position for them.

 

[Yashbhatt]

After reading a ton of articles, I'm still not sure about either one.

 

[EngWiPy]

Is finding a job one reason you are getting a degree? If yes, have you compared your chances a physics and CS degree in the job market?

 

[Yashbhatt]

Is finding a job one reason you are getting a degree? If yes, have you compared your chances a physics and CS degree in the job market?

Of course it counts but it is not the only factor. Getting a job is a part of the reason why I'm worried about opting for Physics.

 

[EngWiPy]

If finding a job is part of the reason why you are worried, then what is the other part? and which one of them does weigh more to you?