Conservation of Linear Momentum

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of conservation of linear momentum as presented in a Classical Dynamics textbook. Participants are examining the implications of a specific excerpt regarding the conditions under which linear momentum is conserved, particularly focusing on the role of an arbitrary vector and the relationship between force and momentum components.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion over the statement that total linear momentum is conserved when the total force is zero, particularly regarding the use of an arbitrary vector ##\vec{s}##.
  • Another participant suggests that if the dot product of the force vector ##\vec{F}## with any arbitrary vector ##\vec{s}## is zero, it implies that ##\vec{F}## must be the zero vector.
  • A different viewpoint indicates that the excerpt is attempting to convey that the change in momentum in the direction perpendicular to the applied force is zero.
  • One participant points out a potential oversight in the original interpretation, noting the importance of the derivative of momentum, ##\dot{\vec{p}}##, in the context of the excerpt.
  • Another participant reiterates the idea that if a specific vector ##\vec{s}## is chosen such that ##\vec{F} \cdot \vec{s} = 0##, then the momentum component in that direction remains constant over time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interpretations of the excerpt, particularly regarding the implications of the arbitrary vector and the conditions for momentum conservation. No consensus is reached on the clarity or correctness of the original statement.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential ambiguities in the excerpt, including the role of the derivative of momentum and the interpretation of the arbitrary vector ##\vec{s}##. The discussion remains focused on clarifying these points without resolving the underlying confusion.

Bashyboy
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In my Classical Dynamics book, I am reading about the topic alluded to in the title of this thread.
Here is an excerpt that is provided me with confusion:

"The total linear momentum [itex]\vec{p}[/itex] of a particle is conserve when the total force on it is zero

Note that this result is derived from the vector equation [itex]\vec{p} = \vec(0}[/itex], and therefore applies for each component of the linear momentum. To state the result in other terms, we let [itex]\vec{s}[/itex] be some constant vector such that [itex]\vec{F} \cdot \vec{s} = \vec{0}[/itex]indepent of time. Then [itex]\vec{p} \cdot {s} = \vec{F} \cdot \vec{s} = \vec{0}[/itex] or, integrating with respect to time [itex]\vec{p} \cdot \vec{s} = c[/itex] which states that the component of linear momentum in the direction in which in the force vanishes is constant in time

The part in bold is particularly confusing. Could someone help, please?
 
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yeah, that is very weird. It looks almost like they are using ##\vec{s}## as an arbitrary vector. So in other words, imagine ##\vec{s}## is any arbitrary (but constant with time) vector, then ##\vec{F} \cdot \vec{s} = 0## Yeah, also, it should be 0 (a scalar) not a vector, since the dot product of two vectors is a scalar.

I think there is something in the definition of a linear vector space that says if the dot product of a vector ##\vec{F}## with any arbitrary vector in the vector space ##\vec{s}## is zero, then the vector ##\vec{F}## must be the zero vector. (In other words, it is just another way of saying that ##\vec{F}## is the zero vector).
 
What it is trying to say (not too well) is that the change in the component of momentum in the direction perpendicular to the applied force is zero.
 
You misread. Your book (apparently Marion & Thornton) says
"To state the result in other terms, we let ##\vec s## be some constant vector such that ##\vec F \cdot \vec s = 0## independent of time. Then ##\dot{\vec p} \cdot \vec s=\vec F \cdot \vec s = 0## or, integrating with respect to time ##\vec p \cdot \vec s = c## which states that the component of linear momentum in the direction in which in the force vanishes is constant in time."​

You missed the derivative of momentum, ##\dot{\vec p}##.
 
Chestermiller said:
What it is trying to say (not too well) is that the change in the component of momentum in the direction perpendicular to the applied force is zero.
Ah, yeah. It could mean that. So if we choose a specific ##\vec{s}## for which ##\vec{F} \cdot \vec{s}=0## then this means for that specific vector ##\vec{s}##, we have: ##\vec{p} \cdot \vec{s} = c## (constant with time). So for example, if there are zero forces in the 'x' direction, then the momentum in the 'x' direction is constant.
 

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