Control Systems - How to find dominant poles *without* MATLAB?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding dominant poles for a control system design problem, specifically focusing on designing a lag-lead compensator to achieve specified performance criteria such as overshoot and settling time, without using MATLAB. The scope includes theoretical and mathematical reasoning related to control systems.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states the need to find the dominant poles by hand, using a specific damping ratio derived from the desired overshoot.
  • Another participant suggests solving a quadratic equation by finding the closed-loop function and setting the denominator to zero to determine the pole distribution.
  • A participant proposes a specific form for the open-loop transfer function and asks how to proceed from there.
  • There are repeated suggestions to leave the denominator in factored form and find the solutions for the polynomial equation.
  • Concerns are raised about the necessity of using MATLAB to achieve the desired damping ratio and whether it can be done entirely by hand.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of MATLAB for finding the dominant poles, with some suggesting that it can be done by hand while others reference the use of MATLAB as a common practice.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the applicability of mathematical techniques and the limitations of solving the problem without computational tools. Specific mathematical steps and definitions are not fully resolved, leaving some ambiguity in the approach.

Who May Find This Useful

Students and practitioners in control systems engineering, particularly those interested in manual techniques for pole placement and compensator design.

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Homework Statement


Design a lag-lead compensator for the system of Figure 9.37 so that the system will operate with 20% overshoot and a twofold reduction in settling time. Further, the compensated system will exhibit a tenfold improvement in steady-state error for a ramp input.
upload_2017-2-14_2-54-10.png

Homework Equations


##\zeta=\frac{-ln(\frac{percentOS}{100})}{\sqrt(\pi^2+ln^2(\frac{percentOS}{100}))}##

The Attempt at a Solution


Using the equation and 20% overshoot, ##\zeta = 0.456##. How do I find the dominant poles by hand, WITHOUT matlab? Every single example in my book and the ones I've tried looking for online ALL use Matlab...
 
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Can you solve a quadratic equation?
You have nothing to do than to find the closed-loop function and set the denominator equal to zero. This gives you the pole distribution.
 
LvW said:
Can you solve a quadratic equation?
You have nothing to do than to find the closed-loop function and set the denominator equal to zero. This gives you the pole distribution.
Is it simply:
Gol = ##\frac{K}{(s)(s+6)(s+10)}##
Gcl = ##\frac{Gol}{1+Gol}=\frac{K}{s^3+16s^2+60s+k}##
s^3+16s^2+60s+k = 0

What do I do from here?
 
Leave the denominator in factored form and find the 3 solutions for s(s+6)(s+10) = 0

It should be pretty straightforward.
 
magoo said:
Leave the denominator in factored form and find the 3 solutions for s(s+6)(s+10) = 0

It should be pretty straightforward.
The problem asks for a 20% overshoot, and the damping ratio corresponding to that is 0.456. The book says we have to drag the poles in MATLAB until we get our desired damping ratio shown at the bottom, and then the poles are there (-1.79+-3.5j)
upload_2017-2-20_22-44-43.png
Is there a way to do this completely by hand without the use of the Root locus plot or matlab?
 

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