Converse of Lagrange's Theorem is false

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of Lagrange's Theorem in group theory, specifically addressing the implications of its converse and the existence of subgroups within groups of certain orders, such as the group A_4 of order 12.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of Lagrange's Theorem and its converse, questioning the existence of subgroups of specific orders in relation to group order. There is mention of using Cauchy's theorem as a related concept.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants clarifying the distinction between Lagrange's Theorem and Cauchy's theorem. Some participants are attempting to reconcile their understanding of subgroup orders with the examples provided in their textbook.

Contextual Notes

There is a reference to specific examples and theorems from group theory, including the order of groups and the implications of prime divisors on subgroup existence. The original poster expresses confusion regarding the application of these concepts.

math_nerd
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This is not a homework problem. In Gallian, there is an example given:

The group A_4 of order 12 has no subgroups of order 6. I can't seem to understand what this means in terms of how this is the "converse" of Lagrange's Theorem.
 
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A converse of Lagrange's theorem would say for every divisor of the order of group, there's a subgroup of that order. It's false. Apparently.
 
Hmm...okay. So here's a problem in the book that I think applies this concept. Prove that group order of 12 must have an element of order 2. This problem uses the converse, because 12|1,2,3,4,6,12. But by Lagrange we can say that order of 2 is definitely there. But to prove that order 3 is not a possibility, we can use the converse to make a contradiction: for every divisor of the order of the group, there's a subgroup of order 12. I hope this makes sense!
 
They didn't use a "converse to the Lagrange theorem". They used Cauchy's theorem, which is that if p is prime and divides the order of G then there is a subgroup of order p. There is no complete converse to the Lagrange theorem. Which is what they are trying to tell you. 6 isn't prime. There is a subgroup of order 3.
 

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