Cost of a 50 km range RC system & Type of Antenna

[mastermechanic]

Hello everyone,
I'm a mechanical engineering student working on a reconnaissance/surveillance UAV system. To summarize it,

1-) It will either have FLIR camera system (If I can afford it) or GoPro with turret system. In either case it will transmit 4K or lower quality video record. It will also transmit sensor records and will be controlled by RC to control all servos and etc.
2-) It will operate at max 3 km of altitude and in a mission radius of 50 km.

Since I am a mechanical engineering student I don't have enough background about how these things work. In the second part the numbers are arbitrarily chosen and depend upon the cost, for example if 200 km range of RC system is still affordable then I change it.

Most UAVs are operating at VHF and UHF bands. I am still doing some research on it but by now I couldn't find any information about cost. My questions are;

1-) Can a 3 or 4th grade electrical & electronics student built such a system with 50 km range? I mean is it feasible for a good student?
2-) In which order does an approx. 50 km range RC system cost if it is made by a student and if I get the system from a specific company?
3-) What type of antenna is appropriate for this project?

Your answers are valuable to me. Thanks!

 

[berkeman]

Will you have internet access reliably at the location of the drone? If so, just use cell phones to do the control.

If not, do you have an amateur radio (HAM) license yet? This is just a school project and not for commercial use, right?

 

[mastermechanic]

Will you have internet access reliably at the location of the drone? If so, just use cell phones to do the control.

If not, do you have an amateur radio (HAM) license yet? This is just a school project and not for commercial use, right?

Actually, it I am trying to built something commercial by meeting aircraft standards (STANAG) in this case. But mine mission capabilities don't fit any class specified in the regulations. For example, it terms of weight my UAV will not be heavier than 5-10 kg and regulations say that this type of UAVs doesn't need to be certified but in terms of altitude or range it fits on the Close Range system and need to meet some requirements to be certified such as collision detect and avoid.

I take my time and will design something that meets these regulations but since it's my first aircraft project there are lots of things that are blurred to me. Some of the processes must be done empirically therefore I cannot consider legal regulations at the conceptual phase. To answer your question, I don't have that license but after I get some successful results in a safe area with this project then I will certify it and get necessary license.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Can a 3 or 4th grade electrical & electronics student

What country are you in? In the US these are ~9 year olds.

I think you have a bigger problem than long-distance control. A typical drone speed is ~80 km/hr and a typical flight duration of 20-30 minutes. So you don't have enough power to get the drone 50km away and back.

 

[tech99]

Hello everyone,
I'm a mechanical engineering student working on a reconnaissance/surveillance UAV system. To summarize it,

1-) It will either have FLIR camera system (If I can afford it) or GoPro with turret system. In either case it will transmit 4K or lower quality video record. It will also transmit sensor records and will be controlled by RC to control all servos and etc.
2-) It will operate at max 3 km of altitude and in a mission radius of 50 km.

Since I am a mechanical engineering student I don't have enough background about how these things work. In the second part the numbers are arbitrarily chosen and depend upon the cost, for example if 200 km range of RC system is still affordable then I change it.

Most UAVs are operating at VHF and UHF bands. I am still doing some research on it but by now I couldn't find any information about cost. My questions are;

1-) Can a 3 or 4th grade electrical & electronics student built such a system with 50 km range? I mean is it feasible for a good student?
2-) In which order does an approx. 50 km range RC system cost if it is made by a student and if I get the system from a specific company?
3-) What type of antenna is appropriate for this project?

Your answers are valuable to me. Thanks!

I think there is huge difficulty doing this. I presume you mean video at 4kbit/s. That is very slow indeed, so each low resolution frame would take a few seconds. It is difficult to obtain communication over 50km with small antennas and reasonable transmitter power when the aircraft is low.

 

[mastermechanic]

What country are you in? In the US these are ~9 year olds.

I think you have a bigger problem than long-distance control. A typical drone speed is ~80 km/hr and a typical flight duration of 20-30 minutes. So you don't have enough power to get the drone 50km away and back.

No actually, this uav will have a Horizontal Take off and Landing (HTOL), so it's somehow wrong to call it a drone. It's going to have mini IC engine for specific use and since operational altitude is high, density up there is also low which reduces drag. So, I'll design it for having at least 24hr. I don't think I'll have much problem with flight duration. By the way I live in Turkey.

 

[mastermechanic]

I think there is huge difficulty doing this. I presume you mean video at 4kbit/s. That is very slow indeed, so each low resolution frame would take a few seconds. It is difficult to obtain communication over 50km with small antennas and reasonable transmitter power when the aircraft is low.

I think there is a misunderstanding caused by me since I didn't specified the type of UAV. It won't be a typical drone, it's HTOL and small scale Reaper or Global Hawk type UAV so I'll have vast amount of space to place antennas etc. In the conceptual phase I'm thinking of a fuselage of 25x100 cm and I'm free to extend this up to some value.

 

[davenn]

No actually, this uav will have a Horizontal Take off and Landing (HTOL), so it's somehow wrong to call it a drone.

that is incorrect
The definition of a drone is ANY Unmanned (remote controlled) aircraft.
A UAV IS a drone

Actually, it I am trying to built something commercial by meeting aircraft standards (STANAG) in this case. But mine mission capabilities don't fit any class specified in the regulations. For example, it terms of weight my UAV will not be heavier than 5-10 kg and regulations say that this type of UAVs doesn't need to be certified but in terms of altitude or range it fits on the Close Range system and need to meet some requirements to be certified such as collision detect and avoid.

You had better reread the laws concerning drones in your country
Your plans already break the law if you fly the way you stated
just some basics

General Turkey Drone Laws

Drone use is allowed in Turkey, but there are several drone laws that need to be followed when flying in the country. Operators must ensure that they follow the following drone laws when flying in Turkey,

• Do not fly your drone over people or large crowds
• Do not fly your drone higher than 120 meters
• Respect others privacy when flying your drone
• Do not fly your drone over airports or in areas where aircraft are operating
• You must fly during daylight hours and only fly in good weather conditions
• Do not fly your drone in sensitive areas including government or military facilities. Use of drones or camera drones in these areas are prohibited
• Drones over 500 grams need to be registered (see below)
• Many airlines flying to/from Turkey have completely banned the transport of drones or the transport of lithium-ion batteries. Check with the airline you will be flying to Turkey on to see their policies

more at ...
https://uavsystemsinternational.com/pages/turkey-drone-laws

http://web.shgm.gov.tr/doc5/sht-iha.pdf
time for you to reconsider your plans and if you really want something so heavy, higher flying and longer range, you are going to have some serious registration costs, amongst other thingsDave

 

[mastermechanic]

that is incorrect
The definition of a drone is ANY Unmanned (remote controlled) aircraft.
A UAV IS a drone

I don't think so, one of my resource states that

"Unmanned aircraft must not be confused with model aircraft or with ‘drones’, as is often done by
the media. A radio-controlled model aircraft is used only for sport and must remain within sight of the
operator. The operator is usually limited to instructing the aircraft to climb or descend and to turn to the
left or to the right."

(Introduction to Unmanned Aircraft Systems, UAVs Design, Development and Deployment, Reg Austin, 2010)

My UAV will not operate within the sight because it will have an autonomous flight system and 50 km+ range is not suitable for drones.

 

[davenn]

I don't think so, one of my resource states that

"Unmanned aircraft must not be confused with model aircraft or with ‘drones’, as is often done by
the media. A radio-controlled model aircraft is used only for sport and must remain within sight of the
operator. The operator is usually limited to instructing the aircraft to climb or descend and to turn to the
left or to the right."

Sorry but that is incorect

Drone aircraft definition

Drones are more formally known as unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) or unmanned aircraft systems (UASes). Essentially, a drone is a flying robot that can be remotely controlled or fly autonomously through software-controlled flight plans in their embedded systems, working in conjunction with onboard sensors and GPS.

A UAV that you are planning IS a drone, they are the same thing
Size and purpose is irrelevant

For what you are planning, I suspect will attract the attention of the military / other aviation authorities. This is some =thing you should probably be doing with military oversight.

 

[mastermechanic]

Sorry but that is incorect
A UAV that you are planning IS a drone, they are the same thing
Size and purpose is irrelevant

For what you are planning, I suspect will attract the attention of the military / other aviation authorities. This is some =thing you should probably be doing with military oversight.

There is regulation about UAVs like FAA or EASA standards and it's called STANAG. It's mainly focused on military type UAVs and that's what I'm trying to do. I'm not intended to design a hobby drone. It will have large capability compared to the one you called drone controlled by hand operated RC. It will have high resolution electro-optic camera (+ maybe a thermal) , gps navigation + inertial navigation,collision detect and avoid from other aircrafts, airspeed, position, heading, temp, altitude, fuel sensors and all of these are power by a small IC engine and controlled from a control station. I'm staying out of hobby, this project planned to be a commercial one. Therefore after only few successful tests, I can certify it because at this phase I don't have enough data and experience if it meets the requirements. Inevitably, I have to make some actions in a safe area without permission otherwise I will lose so much time and unnecessary money.

 

[Borek]

I suggest you try to consult your local RC FPV community (Fly Per View), especially those practicing BVLOS (Beyond Visual Line of Sight) flights. Regulations differ from country to country. Where I live people fly BVLOS with 5.8 GHz links (but they don't use 4k transmission, much lower res) - not sure how far from the starting point they fly, but somewhere between 10-20 km for sure (I am not saying what they do is entirely legal, treat it as a proof of what is technically doable).

I have an RC airstrip nearby and I talked there with students of Faculty of Power and Aeronautical Engineering, they were designing drones (similar to what you describe, battery supported VTOL then wings and IC for economy) for the Australian UAV Challenge Medical Rescue. Mind blown.

 

[mastermechanic]

Where I live people fly BVLOS with 5.8 GHz links (but they don't use 4k transmission, much lower res) - not sure how far from the starting point they fly, but somewhere between 10-20 km for sure (I am not saying what they do is entirely legal, treat it as a proof of what is technically doable).

Thank you for your suggestion. I found a company near our university specialized in antennas, I will also talk to an electronics teacher. Actually, 4K is just an upper limit I am not sure about that, lower quaility is still okay for me. Some data processing is required in order to reduce bandwidth usage. Current UAVs have 250-300 km of line of sight range with radio link which makes me to think if I can make a 100 km range and their high resolution cams transmit 75 Mb/sec. (of course it's an average, Global Hawk can transmit up to 500 mb/sec)