Creating a Working Prototype of Armor to Move with You

[spartan]

You can't beat good old h20 when it comes to hydration, although it would be good to add some electrolytes and maybe some extra calories. As for the power usage of the nanotube muscles, the only thing I've seen said that a finished product shouldn't take more than 1-4v to activate, other than that I don't know much about it. Anyone have any good sites to find out more about them? Also, has anyone here looked into that ring-carbon armor mentioned in the site I posted earlier? I can't seem to find out much about it. I don't have too much information to contribute, but I'll throw in whatever I can when things start to get slow around here.

 

[SkepticJ]

Not much to add but a link to the http://www.liquidmetal.com/index/ I talked about a few posts back. It should make great armor piercing bullets because like depleted uranium rounds it's self sharpening as it goes through the target.

 

[dragonpowered]

this is my first post and id like to keep it short. you guys have had a great many good ideas but has anyone considered what kind of support structures you would use. also what kinds of people would be able to pilot it?

 

[zesban]

In regards to the pilot question, I would offer the following idea. The suit should be designed to be modules that are selected for different body types and sizes for at least the limbs, torso, and head. Further, the parts would be designed to be slightly loose and then have a system to more "form-fit" the pilot. Maybe an inflatable inner layer on the suit.

As for support structures, I'm not sure what you mean. For instance, are you speaking of mechanical support for the suit, battlefield support for the pilot, or financial support for the development? Or something else entirely?

To the others, I haven't had much of a chance to do any further research on a power source or to even check out the metal glass link skeptic posted. Sounds like some cool stuff though.

Edit: LOL! I just checked out the glass metal link and it's liquid metal! I've been posting links to these guys for a month now on here! That's great that we came to the same conclusion! A buddy of mine pointed out the low melting point of the stuff though, so we've been looking at AmAlOx for armor and such, check out my previous link about it. As a projectile this might be nice though, its melting in mid flight could have an interesting effect.

 

[SkepticJ]

Maybe an inflatable inner layer on the suit.

That'd make the trooper into a human arm floaty. They might need to be able to dive underwater(Green Berets, Navy Seals etc.)

 

[spartan]

I'm sure the immense weight of the armor would outweight the buoyancy of the inflatable layer, and it could also be inflated with something like gel instead of air. The gel layer could be heated or cooled as climate control and would insulate against heat from fire and weapon impacts from outside.

 

[FutureRNS]

Originally Posted by SkepticJ
Small hard to see and destroy scouts. They will be cheap so each suit could have hundreds reporting back its findings. Plus can you imagine how paranoid enemy troops would become if any fly they hear or see isn't really a fly but is going to kill them. Maybe they would wear bee keeper outfits. But a fly with a metal needle could just poke through that.



If you would think about this more close, you would understand that you really don't need a power armor for this. Any portable instalation would be suficiant. You can launch tens of thousand of these thing into the battlefield. And what the heck you would use toxic material? Don't you think that using sedative would be better than killing everyone? It doesn't matter that they would be your enemy, still first task of advanced worfare is saving lives in both sides.
About the size of power armor, as already said it should be up to 2.5m. More and you get a tank (like in a joke "Rushan government is building a new sport car. What will they make a tank or a plane?"). And about the alloy "AmAlOx" it's as good as we can get for now. Who knows what will be in 3-5 years. But I would want to know, what is posibilities of force field. Don't you think that by the time this project will be compliete, force field technology will be developed enough to use it? But I imagne that this won't help with power issue:)
But as I see, we all agree that power armor won't be in production without 3-6 years. Well the power armor we talk about. USA army is almost completed the "Scorpion suit" project. I couldn't wind link to this, I really don't have the time, but maybe someone does? Most of us had to hear of it. It the basic of power armor. It's a combat suit, with enchanted strenght and agility. It has modern injury treatment system, and many more that could help a soldier. But it hasn't got an armor.

 

[zesban]

Well the idea of the inflatable inner layer would be to make the suit form fitting. The idea of using a gel in it and then using that as part of the temperature control system is awesome!

I'm wondering, anyone out there know of any good clear substance that could be used as the face plate, or would a screen inside the helmet be preferrable? Ideas, thoughts, comments?

 

[spartan]

I was thinking about that, and I came to the conclusion that we don't have any materials that are completely transparent that can still stop bullets, and those that do seem to crack and turn white when hit. The best option I think would be to have a very small camera on one side of the helmet, and a small nightvision/infrared camera on the other side. The soldier would have a small screen on the inside of the helmet to view, and where the faceplate would normally be, is instead covered in metal. This might seem like overkill, since the likelihood of being shot directly in the faceplate is pretty slim, but it wouldn't be too much more difficult. I imagine the soldiers wearing these won't be your ordinary, run of the mill troops. I think something like this would be more effective as a unit all its own, that operates in small squads of five or six. The suits and training to use them would be too costly to put directly on the battlefield, and it wouldn't necessarily be any more effective there than a normal soldier. It could however be used for specific operations, such as infiltrating an al qaeda encampment and capturing osama bin laden. That's if he's even really still alive.

 

[SkepticJ]

Lexan polycarbonate resin is the best transparent bullet stopper I know of. AK-47 rounds might still punch through though. Same stuff the Apollo launch helments were made of.

I think Osama will have long ago bought the opium farm by the time exoskeltons hit the battlefield. I'd really like humans to grow out of fighting with each other. I'm mostly interested that not will we use them, but could. I hope nuclear fusion bombs are never used to destroy cities of people, but I'm glad they exist. Why do I want weapons research then you ask? Spinoffs. You never know where they will come from. The technology made for military exoskeletons could be used to create space suits for leaping over boulders on Mars. The nanites developed to reduce a building to elemental goo could build a home. Nuclear fusion bombs are the only thing we have to deflect SMALL asteriods incoming with only a few years notice. If they are to big(and to big isn't that big) then we're still screwed.

 

[zesban]

I'm along the same line of thinking regarding the helmet, as it would probably be better to use the camera and screen method. As for leveraging this technology as only a Special Forces unit, I see it as being that way in the beginning but eventually I'd like to see every soldier outfitted like this. A suit like this will increase the efficiency of the infantry exponentially as it will reduce work for them, increase durability, mobility, communication, and protect them far better than they are now. It will be expensive to manufacture them at first, which is why I see them as probably being relegated to the Special Forces role you describe, but cost for manufacturing will drop as more equipment is made available to do so, techniques improve, and the technology progresses. I see this suit as the future of the armed forces personally.

 

[zesban]

Regarding bigger asteroids Skeptic, why not use those nanites again? In fact, use them for all the asteroids, then take those materials and use them to build/fuel stuff. I still think you're placing these technologies too far off in the future, but then again Osama could be killed in a couple years as well. I am an eternal technological optimist. That Lexan stuff is pretty cool, but I imagine a suit like this would have the cameras and be using them anyway, so why not just go the full monty on protecting the head and fully armor it? It is noble to wish for peace, and I agree, it would be nice. I'm not sure if humans would be capable, although they've surprised me before.

 

[SkepticJ]

Regarding bigger asteroids Skeptic, why not use those nanites again? In fact, use them for all the asteroids, then take those materials and use them to build/fuel stuff. I still think you're placing these technologies too far off in the future, but then again Osama could be killed in a couple years as well. I am an eternal technological optimist. That Lexan stuff is pretty cool, but I imagine a suit like this would have the cameras and be using them anyway, so why not just go the full monty on protecting the head and fully armor it? It is noble to wish for peace, and I agree, it would be nice. I'm not sure if humans would be capable, although they've surprised me before.

One thing that everyone should learn and you probably already know is that nanotech cannot and will not be alchemy. They will only be able to make things from the elements avalable. Only have iron, iron oxide and magnesium in the asteroid? That's all you can build then. Compounds using those elements. Without oxygen you're not going to have burning fuel etc. Maybe the nanotech could make the native elements on the asteriod into a huge mass driver to push it out of the way of the earth. Years of advance notice and technology decades in the future would be needed though. I'm an optimist to, that's really the only outlook worth having because if you're in a bad condition and don't think there is any possibility for improvement then what's the point of living? Enough about asteroids, the kind of nanotechnology you and I are talking about is at least twenty years in the future. Osama isn't a young guy, lives a hard life running from troops and living in caves. How long do you think he'll survive?

 

[zesban]

Well I think the power armor we're talking about is a 5 to 10 year project, if it is pursued. That's my opinion though.

As far as building something out of the materials from these asteroids, I don't mean right there. I mean send out a craft to break them down into their core elements, harvest them, and then return them to Earth or somewhere in a controlled manner.

Basically a craft goes out, launches a nano-probe filled with the little critters at the asteroid, they break down the asteroid and bring the materials back to the ship, say on an electro-magnetic beam. The ship then returns with new materials that we can combine with existing materials to make what we want. Nanotechnology like that is closer to the 20-year mark you describe, or that's what I think anyway. Again, that's only if it's actually pursued.

Sadly neither of these technologies are getting the attention they deserve yet. Oh well. Imagine the armor we can develop for this suit when nanotechnology is available!

 

[spartan]

Imagine an armored suit coated in a layer of nanobots, when a bullet hits the suit the nanobots immediately break it down into atoms before it can hit the person inside. Not sure if they could possibly do it that fast, but it would be pretty cool.

 

[zesban]

That would be cool! I'm imagining self repairing power-armor that also can repair the human inside. Of course by this point we may not even need to involve humans in war, but I'm not sure if that will ever truly be the case. Regardless, I'd first like to see a suit made. As far as the HUD goes, some interesting existing technology can be seen here:

http://www.microopticalcorp.com/Products/HomePage.html

Some very cool stuff there too!

 

[SkepticJ]

I don't think that taking a bullet apart before it hits would be possible. A rifle bullet travels at Mach 2 or greater. Imagine the speed that the tiny machines would have to travel around in the suit's skin to take it apart in time. Think of the friction that would be generated by them moving at tens of times the speed of sound around in the suit's skin. The heat generated would destroy them I think. A suit that can repair itself to like new afterwards, sure. Nanotech still has to obey the physical laws of the universe remember, no magic.

 

[spartan]

I'm talking about a layer made purely out of nanobots, they wouldn't have to move anywhere.

 

[Ghetalion]

Keep the targets in mind, gentlemen...

The purpose and target of a powered suit would not be for conventional military application. We have more then enough of a variety of mechanized forces for nations to obliterate each other with that the only way to force the change was to up the defense procedures of biological components to the degree of manipulating quantum flucuations around them to alter the 'direction' of force-carring bosons.

However, modern war will not turn out to be the all-out national military industrial engine ferver it was in the early 20th century. In all reality, in Huntingtonian fashion, modern war will be a clash of civilizations. We will have our ideological/ethnic/religious/economical reasons for conflict that will heavily polarize certain regions of the world and will force kin cultures into making a decision about that conflict. This changes the battlefield of warfare entirely, from the traditional far away terrains to the macroscopic level of urban landscape.

The Cold War brought us a limited assurance that national-level industial complexes may never again compete head to head directly. Instead, they will fight via proxy. The Soviet Union did its share of proxy rearmament to most of Asia by producing 80 million AK-47 (and deriviatve) models during it's 50 year empire. The weapon was designed to simple to manufacture, intuiative to use, minimal part usage for repairs/cleaning, and durability so that poorly educated peasent classes could become of equal an force multiplication level of capitalist/industial armed forces. It worked wonderfully. However, these 80 million weapons remain in circulation in addition to RPG, mortar, and other light projectile explosives that could spell impending doom on a mechanized army in a heavily urbanized environment. (Review the Battle of Berlin for a disturbing example of civilian defensive mobilization and simple projectile explosives against heavily mechanized forces) These weapons are the hallmark of any political/religious terrorist because of their sheer abundance (yay Communism!) and simplicity. These are the weapons that we will be encountering on the battlefield because the flashpoints of civilization clashes will not be in the supraeconomic titans who have the most to lose in an all-out conflaguration of military powers, but of those who continue to ensure an unrestainable volume political instability for one reason or another. These political factions do not have the means to produce their own weapons, thus, tap into the nearly inexhaustable market of Cold War Soviet Arms with whatever funds they can raise. (Just as pro-Democratic forces in the 1950s tapped into the nearly inexhaustable market of Post-WW2 Western Weapons)

Thus, our prime enemy on the new battlefield of modern war will be the 7.62x39 mm round, the RPG-7's PG-7VL, PG-7VR, and TBG-7V rounds, and the British 81 mm mortar. The question is: Do we have the technology to defend against these weapons?

Yes. These weapons contain limitations that will not be upgradable by the third-world nations that rely on them. Once the technology is developed to stop them, third-world nations will not be able to redesign these weapons capabilities en masse and thus, any armor developed would provide long-term defensive capability to infantry units during civilizational conflicts. These civilization conflicts will attract the attention of kin cultures of nations who have higher economic influence which, in turn, the third-world nations will receive money, weapons, and training from these civilizations. However, technological adaptability against technological targets will be much slower since 1.) these industrial nations are not attacking each other 2.) these industrial nations are not within communication/hierarchial command of third-world military units 3.) any adaptibility against future technology will have to become increasingly complex (reducing the number of third-world units that can deploy such weapons) and expensive (reducing incentive to even give these weapons to third-world units) when compared to classical projectile weaponry. Thus, creating an armor that renders Cold War Communist weapons inefficient should be the top priority of Western military forces.

The carbon nanotube flexion/plamsa containment powe source combination appears to show the most promise.

 

[SkepticJ]

I'm talking about a layer made purely out of nanobots, they wouldn't have to move anywhere.

What's going to happen to the kinetic energy of the bullet's lead atoms? The bullet is traveling at Mach 2 which means so are the atoms that make it up. I think you're making it more complicated than it has to be. Just have a weave of titanium and threads made of nanotubes to stop the bullets like aramid(Kevlar) does, but stronger. If any damage occurs then the diminutive machines come into repair the fibers and clean out the blob of lead.

 

[Krishna Bharadwaj G]

instead of going for armors and all that stuff,which in some ways may bitter the relations between different countries,i guess there are far more important issues to be addressed.
after this tsunami disaster,thought of the ways in which these quakes could be predicted well in advance?
happy new year.

 

[zesban]

Krishna, you obviously have your priorities straight by focusing on saving human lives. Please remember that this thread is for the discussion of developing power armor and a separate thread should be started for the discussion of that technology and field of science, geophysical studies I believe.

Regardless, a suit like this would help even with the tsunami disaster. With the amplified strength and the environmental enclosure the suit could traverse the flood waters with ease and allow aid workers to clear rubble and other debris with astonishing speed and agility. The precision of a human touch with the strength of a machine could navigate collapsed buildings and other dangerous areas to get to survivors hanging on the brink of life.

It could help carry supplies to remote regions faster than even typical vehicles could, helping to restore order, prevent rampant disease, and feed the hungry. The presence of such equipment would assist in maintaining order as well. The benefits of a suit like this are obvious even in peacetime.

 

[SkepticJ]

Two words: centaur truck

 

[owen13599]

All you are doing is playing a game with yourself.

 

[SkepticJ]

All you are doing is playing a game with yourself.

What are you talking about? You'll need to say more than that if you want to tell somebody something. It seems their might be a few people who have posted in this thread who aren't taking physics into account but this is no reason why engineers can't create robotic suits someday. It's not like mythical magical phenomena have to be invoked to make it work.

 

[shashwat]

Parts fast enough?

Actually, the real problem would be speed.
With all the parts moving, you would need them to be speed multipliers.If you use levers to move the parts(I'm not an engineer), then the Mechanical Advantage will be less than 1. The person inside will have to apply a lot of force. Nobody will agree to wear the armor anyway.

 

[shashwat]

I'm talking about a layer made purely out of nanobots, they wouldn't have to move anywhere.

Why not have a layer of steel. Its stronger.

 

[gramero]

I work for a company that is building the engines that may power the prototype exoskeletons. Small horsepower, light weight turbine engines.

Check out the prototype suits.

http://bleex.me.berkeley.edu/bleex.htm

 

[zesban]

If you use elctro-mechanical actuators then there are no moving parts. It's just like human muscle. Carbon nano-fiber has this property but is far stronger and more resilient. Check out the previously links I've posted.

 

[SkepticJ]

If you use elctro-mechanical actuators then there are no moving parts. It's just like human muscle. Carbon nano-fiber has this property but is far stronger and more resilient. Check out the previously links I've posted.

I did a little more research on nanotube muscles and it's seems they don't contract at twice the speed of human muscle only expand. They contract at 1/10th the speed of human muscle. But they still are two orders of magnitude stronger than human muscle. Well that's if this is true anyway--> http://www.physorg.com/news2577.html