D'alembert's Principle: Doubts Explained

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter pccrp
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Principle
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around D'alembert's Principle, specifically addressing doubts regarding the conditions under which the terms of the summation in the principle must vanish. Participants explore the implications of the principle in both static and dynamic contexts, considering the role of constraints and the independence of coordinates.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether each term in the summation of D'alembert's Principle must vanish or if it suffices for the sum to be zero, noting that mathematically, individual terms do not need to vanish.
  • Another participant explains that D'alembert's Principle is particularly useful for constraint systems, suggesting that independent coordinates can be introduced to derive equations of motion.
  • A third participant states that in equilibrium, the independence of coordinates implies that each term must be zero, while in dynamic situations, only the sum needs to be zero.
  • One participant challenges the reasoning behind why only the sum must be zero in dynamic cases, seeking clarification on the distinction.
  • Another participant elaborates that in equilibrium, linear independence of variables leads to the conclusion that all coefficients must be zero, while in dynamics, the expression's dependence on trajectories complicates the situation, suggesting that each term must indeed go to zero.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether each term in the summation must vanish in dynamic situations, indicating a lack of consensus on this aspect of D'alembert's Principle.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the distinction between static and dynamic cases, but the discussion does not resolve the underlying assumptions or definitions that may affect the interpretation of the principle.

pccrp
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
/I'm having some doubt with D'alembert's Principle. The principle states that \sum_{i}(\vec {F}_i - \dot{\vec{p}}_i)\delta\vec{r}_i=0 but does that mean that each term of the summation must vanish too, or just the sum does? I know that mathematically there's no need that each term shall vanish, but does physical considerations requires them to vanish separately?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The point of d'Alembert's principle is to use it for constraint systems. If the constraints are all holonomic, you can introduce independent coordinates q_k writing \vec{r}_i=\vec{r}_i(q_1,\ldots,q_f), where f is the number of independent degrees of freedom. Then you can vary the q_k independently from each other, and this gives you equations of motion in terms of these variables.

Another method is to keep the Cartesian coordinates \vec{r}_i and implement the constraints with help of Lagrange multipliers. Then you can vary the \delta \vec{r}_i independently. This leads to equations of motion, where additional forces from the constraints are taken into account.
 
Let's take this in two steps:

The Principle of Virtual Work tells us that constraints do no work.

D'Alembert's Principle permits the impressed forces of dynamical systems to be handled in the same way as constraints - the application of this is to find the unknown trajectories caused by the impressed forces via the calculus of variations - thanks to Euler and Lagrange.

For a system in equilibrium the independence of the coordinates tells us that each of the terms must be zero; for dynamics it is only the sum which must be zero.
 
But why in dynamic situations only the sum must be zero, and not each member of the sum?
 
In the case of equilibrium each variation has only a single coefficient: the value for the force of that constraint. In linear algebra it is shown that if the variables (coordinates) are linearly independent then the sum of a set of coefficients times the independent variables can only sum to zero when all of the coefficients are identically zero.

In the dynamical case you have a difference which must be zero ... but now the expression depends upon the trajectories via Newton's second law of motion: so yes, each term must go to zero, and this is the variational principle which is used to find those trajectories.

Sorry if my earlier statement was misleading and unclear.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
365
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K