Definition of isolation and pulse response time for a 3-way power splitter

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definitions and implications of isolation and pulse response time in the context of a 3-way power splitter and power detector. Participants explore the technical specifications found in data sheets and their practical significance, focusing on the meaning of isolation values and the differences in pulse response times.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants define isolation as the measurement between each pair of output ports, suggesting that significant reflection at outputs can affect transmission balance.
  • Participants discuss that pulse response time refers to the 10%-90% transition time at the output when a step input is applied, with variations in response times indicating potential differences in circuit design.
  • One participant questions the meaning of isolation values like "1-2" in the data sheet, seeking clarification on how these values relate to output power and input power.
  • Another participant notes that higher isolation generally indicates better power balance, with specific numerical examples provided to illustrate the relationship between isolation and power imbalance.
  • There is a discussion about whether a faster response time on the falling edge indicates a smaller fall time, with some suggesting that a device with a fall time of 400/10 may be preferable for low power dissipation compared to one with 800/400.
  • Participants express confusion over the calculation of power imbalance from isolation values and whether standard tables exist for this purpose.
  • One participant offers an alternative perspective on isolation, explaining that non-isolated ports can lead to power mixing and that isolation quantifies this effect, although it does not account for phase differences.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of isolation and pulse response time, with no consensus reached on some of the more technical aspects, such as the specific calculations related to power imbalance and the implications of different isolation values.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that understanding the conversion of logarithmic (dB) scales is essential for calculating power imbalance, and there is mention of specific conditions under which isolation values apply, indicating that assumptions may vary among participants.

Jiho
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I will use 3 way power splitter and power detector.
upload_2019-1-14_12-31-36.png

1. This is power splitter data sheet. In this data sheet, there are different isolation values. What does it mean?? Also in that point, I wonder definition of isolation at power splitter.
upload_2019-1-14_12-37-5.png

2. This is power detector data sheet. In this data sheet, Each pulse response rise/fall time are 400/10 or 800/400. What is difference between 400/10 and 800/400? What does it mean?
 

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Regarding isolation, isolation is defined between each pair of output ports. It may matter if you have significant reflection at outputs - in this case imbalance of isolation is converted into imbalance of transmission.
Regarding pulse response, listed time is the 10%-90% transition time at output if rising or falling step input is applied. Fast response on falling edge likely indicate circuit difference (no pmos or zero-recovery diodes) - may be at cost of higher power dissipation.
 
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Thank you for your answer. But I have three questions.

1.What does isolation 1-2 in the data sheet? I can't catch meaning of number(1-2).
2.What happen if isolation becomes higher or lower??
3.Does fast response on falling edge mean small number of fall time? If I want to get low power dissipation, then 800/400 is better than 400/10??
 
Jiho said:
Thank you for your answer. But I have three questions.

1.What does isolation 1-2 in the data sheet? I can't catch meaning of number(1-2).
1-2 mean isolation between output ports 1 and 2
Jiho said:
2.What happen if isolation becomes higher or lower??
higher isolation mean better power balance. 16dB isolatiom realistically mean about 0.05dB power imbalance off the specs at worst -10dB output reflection
Jiho said:
3.Does fast response on falling edge mean small number of fall time? If I want to get low power dissipation, then 800/400 is better than 400/10??
yes, fall time at output is faster in 400/10 device
yes, 800/400 likely mean device with lower power dissipation
 
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Thank you. I absolutely understand about pulse response time. But I still have two question.

1.What does isolation between output ports 1 and 2 mean? Is ratio of isolation between port 1 and port 2? Would you kindly explain me isolation 1-2?? I know isolation mean -10log(Pout/Pin). But I confuse what 'isolation 1-2' means. What are output power and input power at 'isolation 1-2'??

2.How can I calculate power imbalance off 0.05dB from 16dB of isolation. Does table exist??
 
Jiho said:
Thank you. I absolutely understand about pulse response time. But I still have two question.

1.What does isolation between output ports 1 and 2 mean? Is ratio of isolation between port 1 and port 2? Would you kindly explain me isolation 1-2?? I know isolation mean -10log(Pout/Pin). But I confuse what 'isolation 1-2' means. What are output power and input power at 'isolation 1-2'??

2.How can I calculate power imbalance off 0.05dB from 16dB of isolation. Does table exist??
Isolation 1-2 is the power of input 2 needed to produce 0 dBm power at output 1
Regarding reflection to imbalance calculation, it is not on standard tables. No short explanation here, you need to understand the conversion of logarithmic (dB) scale.
In linear scale
imbalance=(delta(loss)+delta(isolation)*delta(reflection))/loss
where delta is worst-case discrepancy between ports
for example, delta(loss) for 750 MHz at table 1 is
10-5.26/10-10-5.32/10=0.00409=-23.9dB
 
Jiho said:
What does isolation between output ports 1 and 2 mean?
Here is an alternative / additional view:
I am assuming that you can handle dBs ok.
If the ports are not totally isolated from each other, any power entering one port will result in some power from the other port. If one port is mis terminated then the reflected power will end up mixing with the wanted signal from the other. The only way to quantify this is to show the isolation. That, of course, doesn't tell the whole story because the relative phases could be anything - the vector sum or difference being the maximum possible error.
 
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