Definition of the root of -1 for different roots

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the definition and behavior of the expression ##\sqrt[a]{-1}## as the variable ##a## varies over real numbers. Participants explore when this expression yields complex versus real values, particularly examining specific cases such as ##a = 2##, ##a = 3##, and ##a = \pi##. The conversation touches on mathematical definitions and the implications of raising negative numbers to various powers.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that when ##a = 2##, ##\sqrt[2]{-1}## is complex, while when ##a = 3##, ##\sqrt[3]{-1}## is real, prompting questions about other values of ##a##, such as ##\pi##.
  • Others argue that there is no standard definition for the "π-th root" of a number, suggesting that the index of a radical should be a positive integer of 2 or larger.
  • A participant discusses the expression ##x^{1/a} = e^{\frac{\ln x}{a}}## and questions whether this holds for negative numbers, specifically ##(-1)^{1/3}##.
  • Some participants highlight that while ##(-1)^{1/3} = -1## can be expressed in terms of the natural logarithm, this does not account for other possible results.
  • There is a contention regarding the interpretation of square roots, with one participant noting that ##\sqrt{4}## is generally accepted to mean the principal square root, which is positive.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the definition of raising a negative number to an irrational exponent is not standard in the realm of real numbers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion contains multiple competing views regarding the definition and behavior of roots of negative numbers, particularly with respect to irrational exponents. There is no consensus on the validity of certain expressions or the implications of raising negative numbers to various powers.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the definitions used, particularly regarding the domain of real numbers and the treatment of negative bases raised to irrational exponents.

Mr Davis 97
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How does the value of ##\displaystyle \sqrt[a]{-1}## vary as ##a## varies as any real number? When is this value complex and when is it real? For example, we know that when a = 2 it is complex, but when a = 3 it is real. What about when ##a = \pi##, for example?
 
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Mr Davis 97 said:
How does the value of ##\displaystyle \sqrt[a]{-1}## vary as ##a## varies as any real number? When is this value complex and when is it real? For example, we know that when a = 2 it is complex, but when a = 3 it is real. What about when ##a = \pi##, for example?
As far as I know, there is no such thing as the "π-th root" of a number. The index of a radical is a positive integer that is 2 or larger. You can however raise a number to an arbitrary power. For example, ##2^{1/\pi} = (e^{\ln 2})^{1/\pi} = e^{\frac{\ln 2}{\pi}}##, but see the link that @SlowThinker posted.
 
Mark44 said:
As far as I know, there is no such thing as the "π-th root" of a number. The index of a radical is a positive integer that is 2 or larger. You can however raise a number to an arbitrary power. For example, ##2^{1/\pi} = (e^{\ln 2})^{1/\pi} = e^{\frac{\ln 2}{\pi}}##, but see the link that @SlowThinker posted.
if ##x^{1/a} = e^{\frac{\ln x}{a}}##, and we know that ##(-1)^{1/3} = -1##, does that mean that ##(-1)^{1/3} = e^{\frac{\ln (-1)}{3}} = -1##?
 
Mr Davis 97 said:
if ##x^{1/a} = e^{\frac{\ln x}{a}}##, and we know that ##(-1)^{1/3} = -1##, does that mean that ##(-1)^{1/3} = e^{\frac{\ln (-1)}{3}} = -1##?
Not if ln means the usual natural logarithm function whose domain is positive real numbers.
 
So in general when would ##(-1)^{1/a}## be complex and when would it be real?
 
Mr Davis 97 said:
if ##x^{1/a} = e^{\frac{\ln x}{a}}##, and we know that ##(-1)^{1/3} = -1##, does that mean that ##(-1)^{1/3} = e^{\frac{\ln (-1)}{3}} = -1##?
##(-1)^{\frac{1}{3}}=e^\frac{ln(-1)}{3}=-1## this is correct but you don't consider the other results,
##\sqrt4=2## is correct but not complete, because ##\sqrt4=\pm 2##
in the same way are other results for ##(-1)^{\frac{1}{3}}=e^\frac{ln(-1)}{3}##

look the post https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/things-can-go-wrong-complex-numbers/
 
MAGNIBORO said:
##(-1)^{\frac{1}{3}}=e^\frac{ln(-1)}{3}=-1## this is correct but you don't consider the other results,
##\sqrt4=2## is correct but not complete, because ##\sqrt4=\pm 2##
No. ##\sqrt 4## is generally accepted to mean the principal square root of 4, a positive number.
MAGNIBORO said:
in the same way are other results for ##(-1)^{\frac{1}{3}}=e^\frac{ln(-1)}{3}##

look the post https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/things-can-go-wrong-complex-numbers/
 
Mr Davis 97 said:
if ##x^{1/a} = e^{\frac{\ln x}{a}}##

That definition only applies when ##x## is positive.

(In the domain of real numbers, there is no standard definition for raising a negative number to an irrational exponent. )
 

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