Delete Button: Why Was It Removed from PF?

[Raghav Gupta]

Why the delete button is recently removed from PF?
It is not showing for even 2 minutes after we write the post.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I don't believe we've ever had a delete button. Are you sure you saw it?

 

[Raghav Gupta]

Are you kidding?
I yesterday deleted one of my post, in thread what career what have you chosen if you were younger in general discussion forum.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

Voila, it is showing in post 3 , besides edit button.
How come, did you do something?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Are you sure you weren't trying to delete a thread before? You can your own post, but not a thread.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

No I am not able to delete a post in homework forum that would be 40 minutes old.
I guess delete button is for 2 hrs valid. Yeah I know we cannot delete a thread starting post.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

Does Delete button works in PF lounge only, not in other forums?
Also Delete button not works in P.M's .

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Does Delete button works in PF lounge only, not in other forums?

Should be able to in most forums

Also Delete button not works in P.M's .

Right

 

[Raghav Gupta]

In calculus and beyond homework forum it is not working. My post is 29 minutes old.
Why we can't have a option of delete button in PM's ?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

In calculus and beyond homework forum it is not working. My post is 29 minutes old.

We disabled deleting in the homework forums because some students get an answer and then delete their tracks.

Why we can't have a option of delete button in PM's ?

It's not even a permission I can set, ask the developers.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

We disabled deleting in the homework forums because some students get an answer and then delete their tracks.

But the students can also edit by making only a "." Sign. What's the major difference between it?

It's not even a permission I can set, ask the developers.

How can I address them?
Who are they? Are they available here in PF?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

But the students can also edit by making only a "." Sign. What's the major difference between it?

The edit permission has a time window. The delete function does not.

How can I address them?
Who are they? Are they available here in PF?

xenforo.com

 

[Raghav Gupta]

The edit permission has a time window. The delete function does not.

What is the time limit for edit button and for delete button?
I guess it is different for gold members and non-gold members?
Here I think you are making a point for gold members?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

What is the time limit for edit button and for delete button?

200 minutes for regular members 600 for gold members. There is no time window for delete which is why it's disabled in the homework forums.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

But there is time limit for delete button also
I cannot see it after one day for a post I made yesterday in general discussion forum.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

But there is time limit for delete button also
I cannot see it after one day for a post I made yesterday in general discussion forum.

I'm sorry you are right, the edit/delete time windows are the same.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

So can you create a button of delete in homework section?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

So can you create a button of delete in homework section?

If you want a homework post deleted, report it and staff can do it

 

[Raghav Gupta]

Never mind, I would edit it by only putting a full stop sign.

 

[Drakkith]

Never mind, I would edit it by only putting a full stop sign.

Then you should be aware that repeatedly editing a post in this manner is likely to get you banned. From PF Terms and Rules:

Deleting Posts:
Normally, we remove or edit posts only if they violate these Guidelines. You should consider your posts and threads as permanently available for everyone's benefit. If you want us to make an exception (e.g. a question that has not yet received any responses, or a post that contains personal identifying information), you may use the Report button on the post to request action.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

Then you should be aware that repeatedly editing a post in this manner is likely to get you banned. From PF Terms and Rules:

Deleting Posts:
Normally, we remove or edit posts only if they violate these Guidelines. You should consider your posts and threads as permanently available for everyone's benefit. If you want us to make an exception (e.g. a question that has not yet received any responses, or a post that contains personal identifying information), you may use the Report button on the post to request action.

Oh, sorry.
By the way I have never done that what I am saying in post 19.
I was arguing with Greg Sir so he gives us feature of that button in Homework Forums as both edit and delete button have same time window.
If some student deletes his track in Homework Forums, then I think we should report that?

 

[Drakkith]

If some student deletes his track in Homework Forums, then I think we should report that?

Yes, if you see people editing their posts to remove all the content then please report the post to us mentors by clicking the "Report" button.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

Yes, if you see people editing their posts to remove all the content then please report the post to us mentors by clicking the "Report" button.

I think you are not getting what I am trying to say?
In simple words, why we can't have a delete button in Homework forums?

 

[Drakkith]

I think you are not getting what I am trying to say?
In simple words, why we can't have a delete button in Homework forums?

Greg already explained it. Too many people were using it to delete their posts. Even though the time windows for the Edit and Delete buttons are the same, people are more likely to delete their post rather than edit it, so it does cut down on some of this behavior.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

Greg already explained it. Too many people were using it to delete their posts. Even though the time windows for the Edit and Delete buttons are the same, people are more likely to delete their post rather than edit it, so it does cut down on some of this behavior.

So we can report that, even if we have a delete button.
Also why we have a delete button in other forums then?

 

[Drakkith]

So we can report that, even if we have a delete button.

I'm sorry I don't understand what you're saying here.

Also why we have a delete button in other forums then?

It's to allow members to delete their posts in case of mistakes, misunderstandings, etc. Deletion of posts in the non-homework forums is simply not an issue like it is in the homework forums.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

I'm sorry I don't understand what you're saying here.

Means if some guy deletes his post in homework section.
The homework helper there can report to you staff people on that guy's rude behaviour.

It's to allow members to delete their posts in case of mistakes, misunderstandings, etc. Deletion of posts in the non-homework forums is simply not an issue like it is in the homework forums.

But in general physics section, chemistry and math section also some type of questions are asked.
Science advisors etc. help there.
So there also the delete button should not be there?

 

[Drakkith]

Means if some guy deletes his post in homework section.
The homework helper there can report to you staff people on that guy's rude behaviour.

The deletion of homework question posts was enough of a problem to warrant the removal the delete button. That's really all there is too it.

But in general physics section, chemistry and math section also some type of questions are asked.
Science advisors etc. help there.
So there also the delete button should not be there?

As I said, it's not an issue in the other forums. People simply don't delete their posts like they do in the homework forums, so we can leave the delete button there.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

Okay, that was an enough argument for me.
Thanks. By the way you have helped me a lot in general physics section.
I think my debate doing skills strengthened by this.

 

[Drakkith]

Uh, thanks? I can't say I've ever been told I've helped someone with their debate skills before.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

There are two big reasons why we don't allow homework questions to be deleted:

1) To stop members from cheating. Every now and then someone posts a problem that they know they're not allowed to in an attempt to get the answer. Then they try to delete it when they realize they will get caught. We're not a site that does homework for people. We'll help them learn but not cheat, and definitely not cover up cheating.

2) To stop members taking away something that can help others. Also every now and then we get people posting a question, getting help on it and then trying to delete it because they don't want their classmates to see. Their logic is that for some reason it would be cheating for their classmates to also get help. That's not our goal at all. Above all this is a forum and a big part of forums is legacy. There have been thousands upon thousands of questions asked on this site that don't just help the member asking them, it helps all the people who type a question into google and find this site because of it. Trying to delete a thread or post after you've got an answer is selfish and takes away from people who might read it in future.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

There are two big reasons why we don't allow homework questions to be deleted:

1) To stop members from cheating. Every now and then someone posts a problem that they know they're not allowed to in an attempt to get the answer. Then they try to delete it when they realize they will get caught. We're not a site that does homework for people. We'll help them learn but not cheat, and definitely not cover up cheating.

2) To stop members taking away something that can help others. Also every now and then we get people posting a question, getting help on it and then trying to delete it because they don't want their classmates to see. Their logic is that for some reason it would be cheating for their classmates to also get help. That's not our goal at all. Above all this is a forum and a big part of forums is legacy. There have been thousands upon thousands of questions asked on this site that don't just help the member asking them, it helps all the people who type a question into google and find this site because of it. Trying to delete a thread or post after you've got an answer is selfish and takes away from people who might read it in future.

I am getting your point but I have some counter- arguments.
And I think I was discussing it with Drakkith and that is why I was calling it a debate.
You are saying that some students in order to not show their work to classmates earlier deleted their work,
but now also they can do by making some edits( by edit option - some loopy message that is not rude)?

 

[Ryan_m_b]

I am getting your point but I have some counter- arguments.
And I think I was discussing it with Drakkith and that is why I was calling it a debate.
You are saying that some students in order to not show their work to classmates earlier deleted their work,
but now also they can do by making some edits( by edit option - some loopy message that is not rude)?

They've always been able to edit posts, like Greg said this is to fix typos or add more information they've just remembered. But there is a window, after 3 hours 20 mins they will not longer be allowed to edit. This time window has been changed a few times as we figure out the best way. It's long enough that allows people to notice and fix typos and have enough time to add relevant information they may think of but at the same time it is short enough so that most people will not have had their question fully answered before the window is over.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

Earlier Greg sir was admitting that delete option has no time window
But in later posts he was saying that delete window also has 3 hours 20 minutes time constraint, same like edit button.
So in a hurry if someone has put a wrong post like this ( see post 53)
Application of Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle
It's better I think if there is a delete button?

You might say that I could have used edit button,
but in edit button we then cannot quote as a pop up for edit window comes.

 

[Drakkith]

You are saying that some students in order to not show their work to classmates earlier deleted their work,
but now also they can do by making some edits( by edit option - some loopy message that is not rude)?

Which can easily be reported by any member and reverted by a mentor, unlike a deleted post, which must be caught by the mentors themselves since members can't see deleted posts. The fact is that the delete option simply causes more trouble than it's worth in the homework forums.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

But why would one delete his message as then he would not get replies from advisors and his query would not be solved?

Post Script:
So can mentors see deleted messages, in which it asks give a reason for deletion?
Is it not bizarre, so many persons deleting posts in other forums would create database problem for mentors, if they can see it?

 

[Drakkith]

But why would one delete his message as then he would not get replies from advisors and his query would not be solved?

They usually don't delete their posts until after their question has been answered.

So can mentors see deleted messages, in which it asks give a reason for deletion?

We can see deleted threads and posts, but unless someone puts in a reason for deletion, then there's no explanation.

Is it not bizarre, so many persons deleting posts in other forums would create database problem for mentors, if they can see it?

I'm not sure. I don't know what kind of database problems you're talking about.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Earlier Greg sir

Overall your English is good but just to let you know if you're referring to someone as "sir" you don't say their name (unless they've been knighted in the UK, if Greg had he'd be "Sir Greg"). You can say "Mr" followed by their surname i.e. Mr Bernhardt, but Greg is a cool guy and you can just call him by his name,

was admitting that delete option has no time window
But in later posts he was saying that delete window also has 3 hours 20 minutes time constraint, same like edit button.

The first part is in error. In the normal forums I believe the delete window has an error of 3 hours 20, like the edit. In homework there is no delete function.

So in a hurry if someone has put a wrong post like this ( see post 53)
Application of Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle
It's better I think if there is a delete button?

You might say that I could have used edit button,
but in edit button we then cannot quote as a pop up for edit window comes.

I don't know what you mean by not being able to quote. Editing would have been the right thing to do.

But why would one delete his message as then he would not get replies from advisors and his query would not be solved?

Have you read my post above in 31? It gives you the reasons people want to delete their posts.

Post Script:
So can mentors see deleted messages, in which it asks give a reason for deletion?
Is it not bizarre, so many persons deleting posts in other forums would create database problem for mentors, if they can see it?

Yes we see deleted posts but they don't look like normal posts so there is no confusion. If a post has been deleted then we see a little banner saying "post deleted by" and if we click on it we can see what it is. No confusion.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

Like the way of you mentors being transparent.
Mr. Ryan I was saying that when we press edit button a window appears and we can no longer press the reply button to someone's post that quotes him.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

You can just call me Ryan too. I'm still not really understanding youre point, when you edit your post you've already quoted that person surely. For example in my post at 38 I quoted you. If I click on it now I see this:

I can then edit my post as necessary. If I were to split your post in some way I can just copy and past the "QUOTE=XXX" section also as necessary.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

I'm still not really understanding youre point, when you edit your post you've already quoted that person surely.

Suppose we have not quoted that person at the time of editing, then what?
That's my point.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Suppose we have not quoted that person at the time of editing, then what?
That's my point.

Ok, I'll show you how (bear with my because I'm going to post, then edit my post and show the whole thing with pictures). At the moment, 12:15, this message quotes no one, by 12:19 it will.STEP zero: this is the message with no quote, I want to edit to add your quote. (see "No quote" attachment)

STEP one: I hit reply on your message and the quote appears in the post box. I then highlight this and copy it. (see "Highlight reply" attachment)

STEP two: I hit edit on my post and paste the copied message where I want it (see "Paste in reply" attachment)

STEP three: I click save and then go back through adding these pictures. Make sense?

 

[Raghav Gupta]

Ok, I'll show you how (bear with my because I'm going to post, then edit my post and show the whole thing with pictures). At the moment, 12:15, this message quotes no one, by 12:19 it will.STEP Zero: this is the message with no quote, I want to edit to add your quote.

https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/82481

STEP one: I hit reply on your message and the quote appears in the post box. I then highlight this and copy it.

https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/82482

STEP two: I hit edit on my post and paste the copied message where I want it

https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/82483

STEP three: I click save and then go back through adding these pictures. Make sense?

Don't know why but errors are coming in viewing attachments.
It is saying you have not permissions to view this.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Don't know why but errors are coming in viewing attachments.
It is saying you have not permissions to view this.

I don't know why either, look again I've changed it by just adding attachments.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

I don't know why either, look again I've changed it by just adding attachments.

Yeah got it. It completely makes sense.
It was a problem for me for a while.
Thanks Ryan.