Dependence of Phase Velocity on Wavelength

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a homework problem concerning the dependence of phase velocity on wavelength in a polymer with a dielectric constant that varies with frequency. Participants explore the relationships between phase velocity, group velocity, and wavenumber, as well as the implications of these relationships for the given problem.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a problem statement and initial equations related to phase and group velocities in a dielectric polymer.
  • Another participant questions the absence of wavelength in the derived expression for phase velocity, prompting a discussion about the relationship between wavenumber and wavelength.
  • A third participant confirms the relationship between wavenumber and wavelength, suggesting that rearranging this relationship could yield a connection between phase velocity and wavelength.
  • There is a suggestion to recheck the ratio between phase velocity and group velocity, indicating potential discrepancies in earlier calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the relationship between wavenumber and wavelength, but there is no consensus on the implications for phase velocity and group velocity ratios, as well as the correctness of the initial calculations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes unresolved mathematical steps and dependencies on definitions, particularly regarding the relationship between phase velocity, group velocity, and their dependence on wavenumber and wavelength.

keV.92
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Homework Statement



This is Problem 7.6 from Electronic Properties of Engineering Materials by Livingston.

"Over a wide range of frequencies, the dielectric constant of a polymer is found to be proportional to the inverse square root of frequency. (a) How does the phase velocity of EM-waves vary with wavelength in this polymer? (b) What is the ratio between phase and group velocities in this material?"

This is frustrating for many reasons, not the least of which is that the answers we've been given are in terms of wavenumber, not wavelength. The (presumed) answer follows.

Problem 7-6: (a) ##v_p = Ck^\frac{1}{3} ##, (b) ##v_g = \frac{4}{3}Ck^\frac{1}{3}## so ##\frac{v_p}{v_g} = 2##

Homework Equations



##\epsilon_r \propto \frac{1}{\sqrt{\omega}}##

Phase Velocity: ##v_p = \frac{\omega}{k}##

Group Velocity: ##v_g = \frac{\partial \omega}{\partial k}##

The Attempt at a Solution



For an EM-Wave in a non-magnetic dielectric polymer, ##\mu = \mu_0## and ##\epsilon = \epsilon_r \epsilon_0##. From the solutions to Maxwell's Equations, we produce ##\frac{\omega}{k} = (\mu \epsilon)^{-1/2}##. Thus,

##v_p = \omega / k = (\mu_0 \epsilon_0 \epsilon_r)^{-1/2}##

By adding a constant of proportionality to the given relation, I've been able to insert the equations into each other. This produced the following:

##\frac{\omega}{k} = \frac{Ac_0^2}{\sqrt{\omega}} k##

That seems to show a linear dependence on k, and the wavelength never enters into it. This problem has me running in mathematical circles; this was the only time I got an answer that didn't just prove ##v_p = c_{polymer}##.
 
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keV.92 said:
That seems to show a linear dependence on k, and the wavelength never enters into it.
Do you know the relation between wavenumber and wavelength?
 
Shouldn't that be ##\lambda = \frac{2\pi}{k}## ?
 
Yes that's correct. So if you rearrange that for ##k## and then substitute into your expression for phase velocity you'll get a relationship between phase velocity and wavelength. Is that sufficient for the question you're attempting?

Also check again your ratio between phase velocity and group velocity.
 

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