Determine particle position knowing the velocity field

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on determining the position of particles in a fluid flow described by the Navier-Stokes equations, transitioning from an Eulerian to a Lagrangian framework. Participants explore methods for integrating velocity fields to track particle motion over time, addressing both theoretical and practical aspects of the problem.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the need to integrate the velocity of particles over time to determine their new positions, suggesting that this is a fundamental approach.
  • Another participant explains the transformation between Eulerian and Lagrangian coordinates, emphasizing the invertibility of this mapping under certain conditions and detailing how to express fluid velocities in both coordinate systems.
  • A later reply outlines the necessity of solving a set of coupled differential equations as an initial-value problem to calculate particle trajectories, providing a mathematical formulation for the motion of fluid elements.
  • One participant seeks clarification on how to algorithmically solve the initial-value problem for a specific velocity field, requesting an example to illustrate the process.
  • Another participant reiterates the transformation between coordinates and the importance of distinguishing between different types of time derivatives in the context of fluid dynamics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the theoretical framework for transitioning between Eulerian and Lagrangian descriptions, but there is no consensus on the specific algorithmic steps to solve the initial-value problem for particle positions, as one participant requests further clarification and examples.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the absence of singularities in the fluid flow and the need for specific initial conditions. There are unresolved details regarding the numerical methods or algorithms to be employed for solving the initial-value problem.

Zoli
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Dear all,

I solved the Navier-Stokes equations in Eulerian description. I would like to illustrate it as follows:
I thought to place particles in the domain which will characterize the fluid flow. However I must know the particle position in the Lagrangian specification. As I place the particles at specified positions at t=0, I know the initial state. But how to step further?

Thanks,
Zoli
 
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The idea is to integrate the velocity of the particle u(x0) for a time step. Then the particle has reached a new position (x1) where it has a new velocity u(x1), and so you integrate that velocity, and so on…

Many fancier schemes abound for doing this estimation more accurately, but that's the basic idea.
 
This is given by the transformation between Euler and Lagrange coordinates:
\vec{r}=\vec{r}(t,\vec{R}).
It describes the motion of a fluid element that was at the initial time, t=0 at position \vec{R}. This mapping between \vec{r} and \vec{R} is invertible as long as there are no singularities like shock waves etc. Then you can express every quantity in both the Lagrange coordinates \vec{R} and Euler coordinates \vec{r}. E.g., the velocity of a fluid element is given by
\vec{v}(t,\vec{R})=\partial_t \vec{r}(t,\vec{R}).
You can as well take the velocity field as function of the Euler coordinates. Then the relation is
\vec{v}(t,\vec{R})=\vec{v}[t,\vec{r}(t,\vec{R})] \equiv \vec{v}(t,\vec{r}).
Then you have to distinguish between partial time derivatives (at fixed Euler coordinates \vec{r}) and "material time derivatives (time derivatives at fixed Lagrange coordinates \vec{R}. E.g., for the equations of motion (Euler perfect fluid or viscous Navier Stokes etc) you need the acceleration of a given fluid element, i.e., the material time derivative
\mathrm{D}_t \vec{v}=\frac{\partial}{\partial t} \vec{v}(t,\vec{r})+\frac{\partial \vec{r}(t,\vec{R})}{\partial t} \cdot \vec{\nabla}_{\vec{r}} \vec{v}(t,\vec{r})=\frac{\partial}{\partial t} \vec{v}(t,\vec{r})+(\vec{v} \cdot \vec{\nabla}_r) \vec{v}(t,\vec{r}).

If you have the velocity field in Euler coordinates, \vec{v}(t,\vec{r}), you can thus simply calculate the trajectories of the fluid elements by solving the set of coupled differential equations as an initial-value problem:
\frac{\mathrm{d} \vec{r}}{\mathrm{d} t}=\vec{v}(t,\vec{r}), \quad \vec{r}(t=0)=\vec{R}
This gives you the Euler coordinates in terms of the Lagrange coordinates, \vec{r}=\vec{r}(t,\vec{R}).
 
So if I am not mistaken I should do the following for each particle:
1. Solve the initial-value problem to gain \vec{r}(t,\vec{R}) at different time steps. For this I must solve an IVP consisting of 2 equations because of the 2D-problem. But I have \vec{v} at discrete points at each time.
2. How to continue?

Could you please specify algorithmically how to solve it? An example would help me a lot. E.g. let us regard I have the analytical solution \vec{v} = e^{-t}\cos(x)\sin(y) on [-1,1]\times[-1,1] in Euler coordinates given at (x_1,y_1),\ldots, (x_N,y_N) at t_0,t_1,\ldots,t_M. How could I determine the position of the particle (that is \vec{R}(t)) starting at \vec{R}(t=0)=(0,0)?
 
vanhees71 said:
This is given by the transformation between Euler and Lagrange coordinates:
\vec{r}=\vec{r}(t,\vec{R}).
It describes the motion of a fluid element that was at the initial time, t=0 at position \vec{R}. This mapping between \vec{r} and \vec{R} is invertible as long as there are no singularities like shock waves etc. Then you can express every quantity in both the Lagrange coordinates \vec{R} and Euler coordinates \vec{r}. E.g., the velocity of a fluid element is given by
\vec{v}(t,\vec{R})=\partial_t \vec{r}(t,\vec{R}).
You can as well take the velocity field as function of the Euler coordinates. Then the relation is
\vec{v}(t,\vec{R})=\vec{v}[t,\vec{r}(t,\vec{R})] \equiv \vec{v}(t,\vec{r}).
Then you have to distinguish between partial time derivatives (at fixed Euler coordinates \vec{r}) and "material time derivatives (time derivatives at fixed Lagrange coordinates \vec{R}. E.g., for the equations of motion (Euler perfect fluid or viscous Navier Stokes etc) you need the acceleration of a given fluid element, i.e., the material time derivative
\mathrm{D}_t \vec{v}=\frac{\partial}{\partial t} \vec{v}(t,\vec{r})+\frac{\partial \vec{r}(t,\vec{R})}{\partial t} \cdot \vec{\nabla}_{\vec{r}} \vec{v}(t,\vec{r})=\frac{\partial}{\partial t} \vec{v}(t,\vec{r})+(\vec{v} \cdot \vec{\nabla}_r) \vec{v}(t,\vec{r}).

If you have the velocity field in Euler coordinates, \vec{v}(t,\vec{r}), you can thus simply calculate the trajectories of the fluid elements by solving the set of coupled differential equations as an initial-value problem:
\frac{\mathrm{d} \vec{r}}{\mathrm{d} t}=\vec{v}(t,\vec{r}), \quad \vec{r}(t=0)=\vec{R}
This gives you the Euler coordinates in terms of the Lagrange coordinates, \vec{r}=\vec{r}(t,\vec{R}).

Using this idea, I managed to perform what I wanted. Thank you!
 

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