Dielectric Breakdown and Capacitance

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of dielectric breakdown in capacitors, particularly focusing on whether capacitance remains when part of the dielectric has ionized and become conductive. The context includes considerations of high-frequency AC signals and measurement techniques for capacitance in such scenarios.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether a capacitor retains any capacitance if its dielectric partially breaks down, suggesting that while leakage may increase, some capacitance properties might remain.
  • Another participant proposes that in tubular capacitors, breakdown could occur between layers, leading to reduced capacitance and introducing resistance across the capacitor.
  • A participant expresses concern that measuring capacitance in the presence of leakage current could yield inaccurate results, particularly with charge-discharge time measurements.
  • One reply suggests that a bridge circuit may be necessary to accurately measure capacitance by balancing reactance and resistance.
  • A later reply indicates a plan to use a Wien bridge for measurements, noting that the subject of interest is not strictly a capacitor but is being treated as one for the purpose of measurement.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that dielectric breakdown affects capacitance and introduces complexities in measurement, but there are differing views on the extent of capacitance retention and the methods required for accurate measurement.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the nature of the breakdown, the specific capacitor design, and the measurement techniques employed, which may not account for all variables affecting capacitance.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in capacitor behavior under breakdown conditions, electrical engineering students, and those involved in experimental measurements of capacitance may find this discussion relevant.

DragonPetter
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If a capacitor's dielectric partially breaks down, as in some of the material has ionized and acted as a conductor, will there still be a capacitance to the component?

Say its a high frequency AC signal on a capacitor with a small part of its dielectric material in a breakdown state. My understanding would be that the capacitor would still have some capacitance and capacitor properties, but now its leakage would be increased.

Now the question is, will its capacitance be different or change when some of the dielectric has been broken down?
 
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Hi DragonPetter. If the capacitor is tubular, with the sheets of foil rolled into a cylinder, then I expect a breakdown could occur between a some layers without erupting through the whole lot. So you would have a reduced capacitance but now with a resistance across it.
 
Thanks, this is what I was hoping for.

Now to measure the change in capacitance, many meters use a charge-discharge time measurement, and I would guess that the leakage current will make the capacitance measurement wrong, so that you are not accurately measuring the change in capacitance, yes?
 
Sounds like it won't work. You'd need a bridge, and separately balance out reactance and resistance.
 
NascentOxygen said:
Sounds like it won't work. You'd need a bridge, and separately balance out reactance and resistance.

Cool, that's what I'm planning to use, a wien bridge. The actual thing I'm looking at is not really a capacitor, but I'm considering it one for my measurements.
 

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