Different units while calculating Acceleration of Rotating Objects

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of acceleration for rotating objects, specifically focusing on the units involved in centripetal and tangential acceleration. Participants explore the implications of using different units and the dimensional analysis of these quantities.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of combining centripetal and tangential acceleration due to differing units, suggesting a potential flaw in the theory or their reasoning.
  • Another participant asserts that radians are adimensional, explaining that an angle is defined as an arc length divided by a radius, which leads to the conclusion that radians do not contribute to the dimensionality of the units.
  • A follow-up response confirms that since radians cancel out, the units can be treated as equivalent, but questions arise about whether the cancellation implies any differences in the calculations.
  • Further clarification is provided that while radians are "meters per meter," using different angular measurements (like degrees or RPM) would require additional conversion factors in the formulas.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the adimensional nature of radians and the cancellation of units in the context of the calculations. However, there remains some uncertainty regarding the implications of unit cancellation and the necessity of unit conversions when using different angular measurements.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the implications of using different units for angular velocity and the need for conversions, which may not have been fully resolved in the context of the original problem.

magnetismman
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Question on Acceleration of Rotating Objects:

The Physics Textbook I have says that the Acceleration of a spinning object is the Pythagorean-theorum result of sides for Centripetal-Acceleration (toward the rotation center) and Tangential-Acceleration (perpendicular to Centripetal-Acceleration in the direction of movement). It seemed pretty straight-forward, until I got to calculating each. According to the book:

Centripetal-Acceleration – ac :
Is either:
(1) Tangential-Velocity squared, over radius OR
(2) Angular-Velocity squared, times radius.

Tangential Acceleration – at :
Radius * Angular-Acceleration.

The problem I think I've found is in the units for each.

For Centripetal-Acceleration:
Tangential-Velocity = radius * angular-velocity (meter-radians-per-second)
Radius is a base unit (meters)
...so Tangential-Velocity squared, over radius has the unit:
(radian-radian-meters-per-second-per-second)
Please note, I did get a “Domain of result may be larger” warning from my calculator.

For Tangential-Acceleration:
Angular-Acceleration = Angular-Velocity-Change per second (Radians-per-second-per-second)
Radius is a base unit (meters)
...so Radius times Angular-Acceleration has the unit:
(radian-meters-per-second-per-second)

How can the two be combined for a total rotational-acceleration if the units are different?

Centripetal-Acceleration (ac): (radians2*meters / second2)
Tangential-Acceleration (at): (radians*meters / second2)


Since the units are different, the combined acceleration would be in neither unit.
Is this a flaw in the theory?
Is this some flaw in my reasoning?
Thank you for your advice.

Information-Source: Cutnell&Johnson - 'Physics' 6th Edition (Chapter 8) – ISBN:0-471-15183-1
 
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radians aren't physical units. Strictly speaking an angle is defined as an arch (measured in meters) divided by a radius (measured in meters), giving you the identity 1 radian = 1 meter/meter = 1. That means radians are adimensional. That's why the units (meter-radians-per-second) that you obtained for the tangential velocity may also be expressed as the more familiar (meters-per-second).
 
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dauto said:
radians are adimensional.

Thank you. So am I to understand that since a radian is a meter-per-meter, the units cancel evenly? If so, is there any difference implied by the fact that the radians (meters-per-meter) cancel out different numbers of times for 'equivalent' units? Thanks again.
 
magnetismman said:
Thank you. So am I to understand that since a radian is a meter-per-meter, the units cancel evenly?
Yes.
If so, is there any difference implied by the fact that the radians (meters-per-meter) cancel out different numbers of times for 'equivalent' units? Thanks again.
No, no difference.
 
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The important thing about radians here is that they are lexactly "meters per meter". If you measured the angular velocity in degrees per second, or revolutions per minute, you would have an extra factor in the formulas, just like if you measured velocity in miles per hour but distance in meters.

In real life angular velocities are often measured in RPM etc, so you have to convert them to radians/second before using the formulas.
 
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