Dipole antenna theory: a few questions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the theory and practical challenges of constructing a dipole radio antenna, particularly in the context of a final year physics project. Participants explore various aspects such as beamwidth calculation, antenna gain, impedance matching, and the feasibility of detecting galactic signals at specific frequencies.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on how beamwidth is calculated and expresses confusion about the theoretical aspects of dipole antennas.
  • Another participant explains that gain refers to focusing power and mentions that a dipole has a gain of approximately 2.16 dB compared to an ideal isotropic radiator.
  • Questions arise regarding the height of the antenna in relation to wavelength and the implications for radiation patterns.
  • Participants inquire about the type of balun used and the impedance of the coaxial cable, discussing the potential effects of impedance mismatches on signal quality.
  • Concerns are raised about the ability to detect galactic signals at 22 MHz, with one participant suggesting that the frequency may be too noisy for such observations.
  • Another participant suggests that marine VHF radios and SSB HAM radio antennas might provide useful information for the project.
  • There is a discussion about the appropriateness of the setup for receiving signals and whether the configuration is correct for the intended observations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and agreement on technical aspects, such as the importance of impedance matching and the expected performance of the antenna at the specified frequency. However, there is no consensus on the feasibility of detecting galactic signals at 22 MHz, with some participants expressing skepticism about the likelihood of success.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings about the effects of impedance mismatches, the specific characteristics of the signals being sought, and the appropriateness of the chosen frequency for galactic observations. There are unresolved questions regarding the calculations for gain and beamwidth.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and hobbyists interested in antenna design, radio frequency applications, and those exploring the practical challenges of experimental physics projects.

Yakult
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Hi guys,

I'm in my final year of my physics degree and for my first semester project I had to make a dipole radio antenna, and it's proven to be quite tricky (at least in the theory side of things). I would seriously appreciate some help with a few things if anyone has anything to offer :)

Firstly, I don't understand the beamwidth thing at all. How is it calculated? The best I've managed to find is images of the ideals but with no information as to how they're found, or an explanation. Here's the images I found of the patterns for the height I'm using:

Single Dipole ~7m (lambda 1/2) above ground
http://www.jupiterradio.com/antenna/single-dipole-7m.png
x ... ground plane - z ... zenit

http://www.jupiterradio.com/antenna/single-dipole-7m-top.png
top view

I used a ~25m length of coax as my feedline because I wanted to take readings for 48 hours to try and get some galactic drift readings so needed to keep the laptop and receiver indoors: will this have any major effects on my readings?

Also, would I go about calculating the gain of my antenna, and what exactly IS gain?

I set up a single half-wavelength, East-West dipole, ~7m off the ground and ~7m in total length (two ~3.5m monopoles, centre fed) to receive waves of ~22MHz. This was attached directly to the receiver, which was in turn connected to the laptop. Is that the right way of doing it?

Sorry if these are newbie questions, I'm just really struggling to get to grips with it all!

Thank-you so much in advance!

PS If anyone's wondering, I modeled it closely on http://radiojove.gsfc.nasa.gov/" . I would have taken readings of Jupiter but unfortunately after 9 weeks they still hadn't sent the receiver so I had to make do with a ham radio receiver and only had time to set up the single dipole :(
 
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You need to quote height in terms of wavelength. What frequency are you using?

Gain is focusing power in the crudest terms. A dipole is 2.16 dB ( I think) better than idealised isotropic radiator which does not exist. Peak gain is measured in the direction of peak radiation.

Horizontal dipole near the ground will tend to fire at steepish angles. For low angle radiation you want a vertical dipole or ground plane antenna.
 
I set up a single half-wavelength, East-West dipole, ~7m off the ground and ~7m in total length (two ~3.5m monopoles, centre fed) to receive waves of ~22MHz. This was attached directly to the receiver, which was in turn connected to the laptop. Is that the right way of doing it?

You didn't mention the balun -- what type are you using to match the dipole elements to the coax? What impedance coax are you using? What source are you receiving at 22MHz? Is it a licensed transmitter?

Are you going to rotate the antenna and keep some transmitter fixed in order to map out your real patterns, versus the ones you've pasted in above?
 
Pumblechook said:
You need to quote height in terms of wavelength. What frequency are you using?

Ah ok, sorry, the height is 1/2 the wavelength

berkeman said:
You didn't mention the balun -- what type are you using to match the dipole elements to the coax? What impedance coax are you using? What source are you receiving at 22MHz? Is it a licensed transmitter?

Are you going to rotate the antenna and keep some transmitter fixed in order to map out your real patterns, versus the ones you've pasted in above?

Sorry, I didn't make that clear in my post: it was set up to pick up galactic background and to detect any solar flares (which I'm well aware is extremely unlikely at this time of year and, judging by recent activity, any time at all at the moment) or other noise from the universe.

The impedance of the antenna is supposedly 50 ohms and the coax impedance 75 ohms. Our assigned lecturer told us that that difference wouldn't affect our experiment and so we took his word as gospel... I hope he was correct! Now that I think about it, could we have matched it with the balun?

About the balun, we used a ferrite choke at the feedline with ratio 1:1. This part was down to my lab partner, was he right to do this? What would happen if it wasn't there? Would it make much of a difference?

Thanks a lot for the help so far and for humouring me if this is easy stuff! I feel like I'm starting to get a foothold on this so I really appreciate it :)
 
Yakult said:
The impedance of the antenna is supposedly 50 ohms and the coax impedance 75 ohms. Our assigned lecturer told us that that difference wouldn't affect our experiment and so we took his word as gospel... I hope he was correct! Now that I think about it, could we have matched it with the balun?

About the balun, we used a ferrite choke at the feedline with ratio 1:1. This part was down to my lab partner, was he right to do this? What would happen if it wasn't there? Would it make much of a difference?

The impedance of a half-wave dipole (two opposing quarter-wave elements) is about 75+j0 Ohms, balanced. If you are using a 1:1 balun, that matches to 75 Ohm unbalanced coax, which most likely is what your HAM receiver expects.

An impedance mismatch between the antenna and coax in receive will mainly make the receive sensitivty less. An impedance mismatch between the antenna and coax, plus a mismatch at the receiver, will introduce distortion in the receive signal (from the multiple back-and-forth reflections), which is bad. Best to make the whole system 75 Ohms, or use a different balun to get down to 50 Ohm coax if the receiver is 50 Ohm input. And do not transmit with a mismatched radio/feedline/antenna system -- bad for the transmitter.
 
I didn't see the 22 MHz bit. Half wave above ground.. No wonder there are some high angle lobes.

You won't hear anything galactic on 22 MHz .. FAR too much noise on that frequency. I don't think solar flares are detectable by radio directly. They can cause ionospheric fade-outs and later aurora.

I don't think Cosmic Background Radiation extends much below 100 MHz and is pretty weak at that freq. You have to go up a few GHz.
 
I can't answer your questions but VHF radio's used in marine applications might provide you a source of information as all the discussion I recognize as pertaining to such whip antennas.
It's also possible single side band (SSB) HAM radio antennas would also provide background.

I googled DIPOLE RADIO ANTENNA DESIGN and all sorts of information popped up including a number of available on line computer programs for antenna design...
 

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