Dirac Contraction: Evaluating Propagators at Same Point

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter ghotra
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Contraction Dirac
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the evaluation of propagators at the same spacetime point, particularly in the context of quantum field theory. Participants explore the implications of equal-time contractions, vacuum fluctuations, and the contributions of disconnected diagrams to thermodynamic potentials.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the nature of contractions of field operators evaluated at the same point, noting that propagators typically involve different points.
  • Another participant mentions that Wick's theorem does not apply to equal-time contractions and suggests these are related to the interacting vacuum state.
  • A different participant asserts that the product of two field operators at the same spacetime point is divergent, referencing the anticommutation relation and its connection to a delta function.
  • It is proposed that propagators at the same point can be associated with vacuum fluctuations and self-energy, with examples from \(\phi^4\) theory provided.
  • A participant raises a question about the contribution of disconnected diagrams to thermodynamic potentials and their physical interpretation.
  • In response, another participant explains that disconnected diagrams contribute nothing to thermodynamic functions, citing the linked cluster theorem and its implications for the partition function.
  • A participant briefly diverts the topic to inquire about a private message, indicating a side conversation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of equal-time contractions and the role of disconnected diagrams in thermodynamic functions. There is no consensus on these points, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference complex concepts such as the linked cluster theorem and cumulant generating functions, which may require further clarification or assumptions that are not fully detailed in the discussion.

ghotra
Messages
53
Reaction score
0
I don't have pstricks...so I am going to use words.

[tex] \text{contraction}\{ \overline{\psi}(x_1) \psi(x_1) \}[/tex]

My question: Propogators are usually dealing with different points...but what is the contraction of two quantities evaluated at the same point.

Thanks.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Wick's theorem doesn't apply when you have equal-time contractions. I haven't learned this yet, but these equal-time contractions are somehow lumped into the interacting vacuum state.

Is this correct?
 
Wildly infinite. Seriously though, the the fact that the anticommutation relation between the field and its conjugate momentum is proportional to a delta function should make it clear that the product of two field operators evaluated at the same spacetime point is divergent.
 
And yes, propagators evaluated at the same space time point can be associated with vacuum fluctuations. They generally have the meaning of some kind of self energy. For example, in [tex]\phi^4[/tex] theory you can have disconnected figure eights and so forth, these are vacuum fluctuations. You can also have a line with a loop attached in the middle at a single point, such diagrams represent self interaction.
 
Last edited:
So on a related question, if I were trying to evaluate some sort of thermodynamic potential, what would the disconnected diagrams contribute, if anything? What would the physical interpretation be?
 
In short: Disconnected diagrams always contribute nothing to thermodynamic functions.

In detail: The linked cluster theorem guarantees that such diagrams exponentiate and factorize. The partition function is determined by all the diagrams, connected or not. However, thermodynamic information is contained in the log of the partition function. This log has a special name (besides being the free energy): it is the cumulant generating function (the partition function is the moment generating function). The linked cluster theorem tells you that disconnected diagrams always cancel when calculating the cumulants (which contain the thermodynamic information).
 
This is off topic, but Physics Monkey, have you read the private message I sent you. Sorry to disrupt anything.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K