Discrete mathematics: incursion

AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around calculating the 5th term of a recursive sequence defined by a1 = 2 and ak+1 = 2ak - 1. The initial calculations were incorrect, but after clarification, the correct terms were derived: a2 = 3, a3 = 5, a4 = 9, and a5 = 17. The confusion stemmed from misinterpreting the recursion formula initially presented. The final confirmation of the 5th term being 17 was acknowledged as correct by the participants.
goofyfootsp
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Homework Statement



a 1= 2, a k+1, 2ak-1

Homework Equations



What is the 5th term

The Attempt at a Solution



a1= 2
a2=2(2)-1= 3
a3=2(3)-1=5
a4=2(4)-1=7
a5=2(5)-1=9

5th term =9?
 
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goofyfootsp said:

Homework Statement



a 1= 2, a k+1, 2ak-1

Homework Equations



What is the 5th term

The Attempt at a Solution



a1= 2
a2=2(2)-1= 3
a3=2(3)-1=5
a4=2(4)-1=7
a5=2(5)-1=9

5th term =9?
That would be recursion, not incursion, which has a very different meaning.
The recursion formula you provided is wrong, and I guarantee you that it was not the one you were given in the problem.
a 1= 2, a k+1, 2ak-1
From the work you show later on, it appears that you meant this:
a_1 = 2
a_(k+1) = 2*a_(k) -1

So,
a_1 = 2
a_2 = 2*a_1 -1 = 2(2) - 1 = 3
a_3 = 2*a_2 -1 = 2(3) - 1 = 5
So far, so good, but your next terms are wrong. Here's a hint:

a_4 = 2*a_3 - 1 = 2(?) - 1
a_5 = 2*a_4 - 1 = 2(?) - 1

Mark
 
That equation you presented was correct I did not know how to type it out properly.

I see so

a_4 = 2*a_3 - 1 = 2(?) - 1
a_5 = 2*a_4 - 1 = 2(?) - 1

a_4 = 2*a_3 -1 = 2(5) - 1 = 9

a_5 = 2* a_4-1 = 2(9) -1 = 17

Is that correct?
 


goofyfootsp said:
That equation you presented was correct I did not know how to type it out properly.

I see so

a_4 = 2*a_3 - 1 = 2(?) - 1
a_5 = 2*a_4 - 1 = 2(?) - 1

a_4 = 2*a_3 -1 = 2(5) - 1 = 9

a_5 = 2* a_4-1 = 2(9) -1 = 17

Is that correct?
Yep, it is.
 
Thanks, for your help Mark!

Syd
 
I tried to combine those 2 formulas but it didn't work. I tried using another case where there are 2 red balls and 2 blue balls only so when combining the formula I got ##\frac{(4-1)!}{2!2!}=\frac{3}{2}## which does not make sense. Is there any formula to calculate cyclic permutation of identical objects or I have to do it by listing all the possibilities? Thanks
Since ##px^9+q## is the factor, then ##x^9=\frac{-q}{p}## will be one of the roots. Let ##f(x)=27x^{18}+bx^9+70##, then: $$27\left(\frac{-q}{p}\right)^2+b\left(\frac{-q}{p}\right)+70=0$$ $$b=27 \frac{q}{p}+70 \frac{p}{q}$$ $$b=\frac{27q^2+70p^2}{pq}$$ From this expression, it looks like there is no greatest value of ##b## because increasing the value of ##p## and ##q## will also increase the value of ##b##. How to find the greatest value of ##b##? Thanks
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