Do expectation values vary with time?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of expectation values in quantum mechanics and their potential dependence on time, particularly in relation to probability conservation and the definitions of probability density and current density.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about whether expectation values such as ,

    , and depend solely on the position of the particle and not on time, referencing probability conservation.

  • Another participant clarifies that the conservation law is expressed in terms of probability density (ρ) and probability current density (j), suggesting a different interpretation of the conservation principle.
  • A participant states that while total probability is conserved, expectation values depend on the probability distribution, which can vary with time.
  • It is proposed that the time dependence of expectation values can occur depending on the wave function, with an example of a free Gaussian wave packet illustrating how the expectation value for position can become time-dependent while the momentum remains constant.
  • Another participant notes that the time dependence of expectation values is contingent on the state wave function, the dynamics of the system (Hamiltonian), and the observable being considered.
  • A condition is mentioned where if an observable is conserved, the expectation value remains constant over time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether expectation values vary with time, with multiple competing views presented regarding the conditions under which they may or may not depend on time.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the definitions of probability density and current density, as well as the implications of different wave functions and Hamiltonians on expectation values. There are unresolved aspects regarding the specific conditions under which expectation values may change over time.

Darkmisc
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I'm a bit confused about the nature of probability conservation and expectation values.

According to probability conservation,

\frac{∂P(r,t)}{∂t}=0.


Does that mean that expectation values e.g. <x>, <p> and <E> depend only on the position of the particle and not on time?


Thanks
 
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Im not sure what your P means, but the conservation law is actually expressed
<br /> \frac{\partial \rho}{\partial t}=-\frac{\partial j_i}{\partial x_i}<br />
With \rho the probability density, and j the probability current density. They are defined
<br /> \rho=\Psi^{*}\Psi \quad j_i=\Psi^{*}\partial_i \Psi-\Psi\partial_i \Psi^{*}<br />
More on this
 
P is the normalised probability of finding the particle somewhere in a given volume.


Do expectation values vary with time with ρ and j as defined?
 
Total probability is obviously conserved, but expectation values depend on the probability distribution, which can of course vary with time.

If A is an operator on the Hilbert space of the physical states |\psi \rangle, then

<br /> \frac{\textbf{d}}{\textbf{d}t}\langle \psi| A |\psi\rangle = -\frac{i}{\hslash} \langle\psi|[A,H] |\psi\rangle\, .<br />

From this follow that the expectation value of an operator over an Hamiltonian eigenstate is constant as it should.
Moreover the mean energy is always conserved.

Ilm
 
Darkmisc said:
Do expectation values vary with time with ρ and j as defined?
They can, but this depends in the wave function.

Think about a free Gaussian wave packet centered at x=0 for t=0; the expectation value is of course <x> = 0.

Now you can "boost" this wave such that it moves along the x-axis. Its width grows with time, but of course the normalization P(-∞,+∞) i.e. the probability to find the particle somewhere in the interval (-∞,+∞) remains P = 1 = const. Due to the boost the wave packet moves along the x-axis, i.e. the expectation value for x becomes time-dependent: <x(t)> = p/m * t. The expectation value for the momentum <p(t)> = p = const. b/c there is no potential (we started with a free wave packet).

That means that the the answer to you questioin depends on:
- state wave function ψ you are looking at
- the dynamics, i.e. the Hamiltonian H of your system
- the observable A for which you want to calculate <A(t)>

If A is conserved, i.e. [H,A]=0 the <A(t)> = const.
 

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