Do heat will flow from the lower energy to higher

[alnywk]

do heat will flow from the lower energy to higher/

 

[Hootenanny]

Heat is the transfer of energy. The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system not at equilibrium will tend to increase over time, approaching a maximum value. Which basically means that heat cannot pass from a colder object to a hotter object without work being done.

 

[SGT]

do heat will flow from the lower energy to higher/

Yes, energy depends on temperature and on mass, so a large cold mass has more energy than a small hot one.
An iceberg has much more energy than a bucket of boiling water. If you throw the water in the bucket on the iceberg, energy will flow from lower to higher.

 

[pavadrin]

how does something cold have more energy than something hot? isn't t heat a form of energy?

 

[joemok]

how does something cold have more energy than something hot? isn't t heat a form of energy?

This is because the cold object has a much bigger mass than the hot object.
We should think heat as the energy of transfer

 

[Andrew Mason]

Yes, energy depends on temperature and on mass, so a large cold mass has more energy than a small hot one.
An iceberg has much more energy than a bucket of boiling water. If you throw the water in the bucket on the iceberg, energy will flow from lower to higher.

This may be true, but the quantity of energy does not determine how heat will flow. How about an iceberg at absolute 0? The boiling water in the bucket has much more energy than such an iceberg and heat still flows from the boiling water to the iceberg.

It is the temperature of the two masses which determines the direction of heat flow. Heat energy will only flow directly from hot to cold. It will never flow directly from cold to hot.

AM

 

[SGT]

This may be true, but the quantity of energy does not determine how heat will flow. How about an iceberg at absolute 0? The boiling water in the bucket has much more energy than such an iceberg and heat still flows from the boiling water to the iceberg.

It is the temperature of the two masses which determines the direction of heat flow. Heat energy will only flow directly from hot to cold. It will never flow directly from cold to hot.

AM

I am talking of a real iceberg, whose surface temperature should be around 240K or more and a mass of sevral million tons. It certainly has greater energy than the bucket.

 

[Doc Al]

I am talking of a real iceberg, whose surface temperature should be around 240K or more and a mass of sevral million tons. It certainly has greater energy than the bucket.

I hope you realize that (as AM explained) "heat" naturally flows from hotter to colder (based on a difference in temperature, not total energy content).

If you think otherwise, then perhaps you think that if you rest a bucket of water on a big enough iceberg it will come to a boil?

 

[SGT]

I hope you realize that (as AM explained) "heat" naturally flows from hotter to colder (based on a difference in temperature, not total energy content).

If you think otherwise, then perhaps you think that if you rest a bucket of water on a big enough iceberg it will come to a boil?

What I said is that the iceberg contains more energy than the bucket, but heat will flow from the hot, less energectic bucket to the cold, more energectic iceberg.

 

[Farsight]

Heat itself, its essence and quiddity is motion and nothing else.

We don't talk about motion flowing from areas of high motion to areas of low motion. Instead we apply labels like heat and energy, and happily talk about them flowing instead.

 

[lazycai]

0th law of thermodynamics: thermal energy flows from hotter to colder, and eventually reaching an equilibrium in a closed system.
hotter: molecules vibrates/travels faster
colder: molecules vibrates/travels slower
energy flow/transfer: faster molecules collide with slower molecules, faster molecules slow down, slow molecules speed up, finally reaching the same speed (momentum? KE?)

 

[HallsofIvy]

This may be true, but the quantity of energy does not determine how heat will flow. How about an iceberg at absolute 0? The boiling water in the bucket has much more energy than such an iceberg and heat still flows from the boiling water to the iceberg.

It is the temperature of the two masses which determines the direction of heat flow. Heat energy will only flow directly from hot to cold. It will never flow directly from cold to hot.

AM

Yes, that was the whole point. The original question was whether heat could flow from a lower energy object to a lower energy object. Because heat flow depends on temperature, not energy, the answer is yes. A large object, such as an iceburg, can have lower temperature than a small object, such as a boat, so that heat will flow from the boat to the iceburg but the iceburg has greater total energy than the boat.

 

[Doc Al]

Andrew's comment was a response to SGT's comment, which could have been clearer. The OP asked "Does heat flow from low energy to higher?". I think SGT read that question as meaning "Is it possible for heat to flow from low energy to high energy?"

A clearer answer might have been: "The direction of heat flow depends on temperature difference, not on energy content. Heat could flow from low energy to high energy, if the low energy object has a higher temperature."

 

[Andrew Mason]

Andrew's comment was a response to SGT's comment, which could have been clearer. The OP asked "Does heat flow from low energy to higher?". I think SGT read that question as meaning "Is it possible for heat to flow from low energy to high energy?"

A clearer answer might have been: "The direction of heat flow depends on temperature difference, not on energy content. Heat could flow from low energy to high energy, if the low energy object has a higher temperature."

Well, the question is not all that clear. I interpreted "flow from the lower energy to higher" as "flow from the object whose molecules have lower energy to an object whose molecules have higher energy". Otherwise it is a meaningless question. One may as well ask whether heat can flow from a blue object to a green object. Total energy content (or colour) has nothing to do with heat flow.

AM

 

[Doc Al]

Well, the question is not all that clear.

Exactly. All the more reason to make the answer clear, which you did.

 

[subaru]

do heat will flow from the lower energy to higher/

no it wouldn't
the rule is unique: the energy flows from the hot object to the cold one

 

[SGT]

no it wouldn't
the rule is unique: the energy flows from the hot object to the cold one

The second part of your answer is true, but high temperature means more energy then low only if the two bodies have the same mass. Read the preceding answers.

 

[Andrew Mason]

The second part of your answer is true, but high temperature means more energy then low only if the two bodies have the same mass. Read the preceding answers.

They don't have to have the same mass.

AM

 

[SGT]

They don't have to have the same mass.

AM

No, they don't, but if they do and if they have the same heat capacity, certainly the hotter body contains more energy than the cold one.
Two liters of water at 0 degrees C have more energy than one liter at 100 C.

 

[Andrew Mason]

No, they don't, but if they do and if they have the same heat capacity, certainly the hotter body contains more energy than the cold one.
Two liters of water at 0 degrees C have more energy than one liter at 100 C.

I understand what you are saying. But the fact is that the heat flows by molecular collisions and the heat gradually disperses among all three litres. At all times, heat is flowing from matter at high energy to matter at low energy. It does not flow from the hot water to the cold water as a whole. It does it in little bits, and in each little bit the heat flows from high energy to low energy matter.

AM

 

[SGT]

I understand what you are saying. But the fact is that the heat flows by molecular collisions and the heat gradually disperses among all three litres. At all times, heat is flowing from matter at high energy to matter at low energy. It does not flow from the hot water to the cold water as a whole. It does it in little bits, and in each little bit the heat flows from high energy to low energy matter.

AM

The mean energy of the molecules in the hot water is greater than in the cold one, but the total energy is greater in the last.
Of course, there are individual molecules in the cold water with greater energy than other individual molecules in the hot water.
Collisions between molecules transfer energy from high energy molecules to low energy ones and this happens all the time, even after thermal equilibrium is reached.
The original question is ill worded. It is not clear if the person was talking about total energy or mean energy.
If we are talking of total energy, my answer is correct. If it is mean energy or individual molecular energy, I agree with you, energy is transferred from high to low level.