Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

Dodge County Man Sees Crop Circles Form

  1. Jul 25, 2003 #1

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    ""The holes appeared and there it was but you couldn't see what made it, but I seen it right when it happened," farm owner Arthur Rantala said."

    http://www.themilwaukeechannel.com/news/2342726/detail.html
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jul 27, 2003 #2
    What can I say? I guess it's the
    definitive proof everyone's been
    waiting for.
     
  4. Jul 27, 2003 #3

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    I'll bet you can see his proof for $5 a head also.
     
  5. Jul 27, 2003 #4
    As long as that includes a free
    autographed picture of him poin-
    ting at the formation, who can
    complain.

    Build it and they will come.
     
  6. Jul 27, 2003 #5

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    There is one strange coincidence here...unless this guy has been reading a particular book called "UFOS ARE REAL HERES THE PROOF”. There is a guy in Florida that I have written off named Ed Walters. He has many pictures of alleged UFOs in what was a UFO hotspot- Gulf Breeze Florida. This is the confusing part. I don't believe him; but the UFO activity in the area was seen by hundreds if not thousands of people. It seems that there were UFOs, but also that he was lying. I actually think this happens in conjuction with any unexplained phenomena. If there are lights in the sky there is money to be made.

    The point is this: One of his claims that lost me completely was one of a little "black dot" that knocked on his window to alert him to a UFO flying by...it seems that ET likes his camera.

    Here we find another strange reference to three little "black holes". I guess he must have read Walter's book. However, I have run across other strange coincidences like this that seem to really mean something. So, even though I would bet $99.5/$100 on fraud here, I am still keeping a half a buck on the side just in case. Maybe ET uses little black dots instead of carrier pigeons.
     
  7. Jul 27, 2003 #6
    I think you may have read the
    story too fast. He doesn't say
    "little" black holes. My imp-
    ression is of holes the same dia-
    ameter as the final product.

    These are hoaxes. I think there
    may be some genuine circular
    formations made from time to
    time by some freak electro-
    static/electromagnetic, geo-
    petro energy release but they
    are almost certainly only roughly
    circular and alot more ragged.

    I know what your saying, though,
    about the gulf breeze guy. I
    usually leave the door open a
    crack even to the most absurd
    sounding stories.
     
  8. Jul 27, 2003 #7

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    You're right. I read "like" as "little"...
    Yes. Ed Walters comes off to me like a used car salesman. In fact someone now claims to have found a device used to hoax a photo in the attic of his old home. Then his little black dot knocking on the window...gees! I'm desensitized to this stuff but that's even beyond my tolerance. The darn thing is that again, given the premise, how can we even hope to know how to judge such things? Things that are done now would have seemed equally strange only 100 years ago. This is the most bothersome aspect of researching this stuff. You really can't judge the "evidence" by how much it makes sense. In fact, if ET is here, I doubt that much about his technology would make sense. Of course, it is possible also that "there is nothing new under the suns".

    Also, I have long made the same argument about crop circles. Some simple ones are real; the rest are fakes. Something else may have just undermined this opinion on my part...we will see what comes of it. [?] I chase down a lot of garbage for every good story.
     
  9. Jul 27, 2003 #8
    Aw, I can't hold this in any longer. I think the authentic ones
    are the work of elves and fairies.
     
  10. Jul 27, 2003 #9

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    shows how much you know...its gobblins! Some of them look just like drunken college students...but don't be fooled.
     
  11. Jul 28, 2003 #10
    "Nope" said the farmer, "Jes
    look at the way them stalks is
    bent over. Now you think a bunch
    a goblins coulda done that? Elves
    an' Fairies. I seen 'em myself,
    out here dancin' round and round.
    You think a no-nonsence man like
    me can't tell the diffrence? I
    ain't had a drink goin' on two
    hour now so what I'm saying is
    the sober truth."
     
  12. Jul 30, 2003 #11

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    I had a guy come to me with a faked crop circle. He was just chomping at the bit to get me out there with my meters and probes. I just told him that I didn’t think it was necessary. This guy was a classic con. Note that he was also one of the original Biosphere Engineers.

    But, as you may or may not know, some crop circles come with exposure to radiation - exploded cells in the stalks - and with elevated radiation levels; as compared to the background levels and control samples. Also, some circles have a layered structure that defies at least simple smashing techniques. A group of physics grads were challenged to reproduce these results. They were not completely successful. Also, their methods required luxuries that no hoaxers would enjoy...like a generator for their microwave transducer. So, at least we know that Jim-bob and Jethro didn’t hoax these types of circles.
     
  13. Jul 30, 2003 #12

    jb

    User Avatar

    shat, i live right by there... (i think, i've lived here for 12 years and i still haven't figured out where dodge county was)

    i bet it's fake, i never saw any ufo's flying out that way.
     
  14. Jul 30, 2003 #13

    Dal

    User Avatar

    Does anyone know any link to a website with a large archive or collections of crop circles images?
     
  15. Jul 30, 2003 #14

    Dal

    User Avatar

    Oh! By the way isn’t it possible to create a crop circle from a satellite if equipped with the right kind of technology? Surely today’s technology can pinpoint very accurately and create precise image from a satellite acting as a weapon. I mean it doesn't have to be an alien to do it. It could very well be the military testing their weapons' precision without harmful ammunitions.
     
  16. Jul 30, 2003 #15

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    You may want to check out Linda's site:
    http://www.earthfiles.com

    Linda Moulton Howe is an investigative journalist who investigates these and other related issues. Although not a scientist, she tries very hard to use science and scientists in her work. I spoke with Linda only last week and she seems very serious and very dedicated to the truth. I tried throwing her some curve balls that may serve to discredit some of her work. She was completely supportive and willing to cooperate...in fact, she seemed quite excited. I think she cares more about the truth than for any particular explanation for mysteries such as crop circles. In this field one can ask little more. This is not to say that I always agree with her.

    She is also very nice.

    Just use her search engine for "crop circles".
     
  17. Jul 30, 2003 #16

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    I know of no way that this could be done. What's more, why? Why wouldn't the gov just pay hoaxers if this was their intention?
     
  18. Jul 30, 2003 #17

    Dal

    User Avatar

    I'm not sure but I think with the right kind of radiation emitted from the satellite can create such pattern (like laser equipped satellite can shoot anyone on surface precisely). If so then their intention is only to test the technology. Not making crop circles to entertain. Anyway I’m just saying the possibility but the point is that with our technology, one of our own satellites can do it.
     
  19. Jul 30, 2003 #18
    Ivan,

    Having been upset and bewildered
    by reports of these apparent UFO
    landing sites only to find that
    a good healthy number of them
    were made by two guys with a rope and a board, has left me upset
    and bewildered by those people
    who examined some of these hoaxed
    circles "scientifically" and
    declared them to have unhoaxble
    features.
    How did they get fooled? The
    answer that comes to mind when
    I speculate about this is that
    good scientists often lack com-
    mon sence. If I wanted to see
    if the unusual layered pattern
    were humanly reproducable I
    wouldn't ask physics students
    to try it. I would collect a
    group of people expert in basket
    weaving.
    Similar, more "common sence" tests could be devised for the
    rest of the phenomena. At this
    point I'm looking at the whole
    thing from the standpoint that
    crop circles are best understood
    by studying human nature before
    studying the circles themselves.
    -Zoob
     
  20. Jul 30, 2003 #19

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    But we know for a fact that they're not all fakes. The subject is over 60 years old. Also, Billy-Bob still needs to produce large quatities of radiation. It was the radiation that landed the challenge with the physics crowd. Also, the layering only rules out the techniques demonstrated by hoaxers. I really didn't mean this as evidence otherwise. But the confessed hoaxers cannot reproduce this effect.

    Edit: Also, I never claimed these as UFO landing sites. I know some people think this, but for me there are many more worldly explanations that could account for this mystery; eg some kind of ionic phenomenon. I have long considered that wheat fields may make pretty good electrostatic generators. With all of those little hairs on the wheat head combined with wind and natural vortices, perhaps free charges are pumped from the ground into the enviroment. I have never calculated whether or not these charges could accelerate enough to produce microwaves, but it seems worthy of review. I have been meaning to do this.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2003
  21. Jul 30, 2003 #20
    Ivan:

    I know very little about radiat-
    ion. (I assume you're talking
    about nuclear radiation.) Nor
    do I know much about radiation
    detectors. Under these circumstances the first thing I
    would do is a full blown Columbo
    on the person operating the
    detector. Make sure he's not like
    one of those guys who joins the
    fire departement so he can help
    put out the fires he starts in
    his spare time capacity as an arsonist.
    Then I would Columbo Billy-Bob.
    Did Billy-Bob recently recieve
    shipment of an extrordinarily
    large number of smoke detectors?
    Did Billy-Bob used to go out to
    the desert and rock hunt? Is
    there a large amount of radiation
    detectable on the head of Billy-
    Bobs roofing hammer?
    As far as the pattern goes I
    think you would be astonished
    at what an interested basket
    weaver could come up with.
    And, just because it is in Billy-
    Bob's wheat field doesn't mean
    I would have to account for him
    having the wits to perpetrate a
    sophisticated hoax. Who knows
    what David Copperfield does for
    giggles when he's bored?
    -Zooby
     
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook

Have something to add?



Similar Discussions: Dodge County Man Sees Crop Circles Form
  1. Crop Circles (Replies: 7)

  2. Crop Circles (Replies: 7)

  3. Crop Circle Beer (Replies: 5)

  4. Worst crop circle ever! (Replies: 17)

  5. The crop circle (Replies: 34)

Loading...