rasanders22
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or the same speed than if it had a counter-clockwise spin?
Delta² said:It can travel faster slower or at same speed with a non spining bullet.
However if we have two bullets of same speed, one spinning and one non spinning, then the spinning one carries more energy and thus can have more devastating impact on collision with other bodies. Simply put, a spinning bullet behaves not only as a fast moving body but also like a drill.
Wolf5370 said:I think the spinning (rifling) is to help the bullet trace as straight a line as possible as it is less affected by differences in mass, surface and temperature across the bullet. It may help it to cut through the air (in particular perhaps air currents). One would have thought though, that if the bullet did not spin, it would actually go faster for the same explosive force (as energy would be used to push the bullet only and not to make it spin or overcome the extra drag caused by the rifling in the barrel).
The direction of the spin could make a difference given the direction of the asir currents against it I guess, but as these change (probably several time in a single flight) it would not be a reason to reverse the rifling.
Does a bullet fired with a clockwise spin travel faster or slower...
rasanders22 said:...or the same speed than if it had a counter-clockwise spin?
Phrak said:The same. Why?
sophiecentaur said:I think it's up to you to suggest "why not?", perhaps.
Isn't the point of the rifling, to give better range? Surely a tumbling bullet would be less aerodynamic and slow down quicker. A ball, of the same mass would be wider and experience more drag than a bullet shaped projectile so a spinning bullet is the best buy.
I wonder whether the gas seal whilst in the barrel is better, too.
sophiecentaur said:But clockwise or counter clockwise? Nah - no difference - unless we are considering the rotation of the Earth . . . . . . ..
And your 'naff' air gun could just have been 'naff' in many ways. Far eastern import when that meant cheap and cheerful - not like today.
jarednjames said:Perhaps the galactic rotation should be invoked...
I'm 21, it was brand new top of the line a few years back and anything but "naff" (not a far eastern import for one). The phrase "not like today" doesn't apply to me. I had two, one was a single shot rifle (rifled) and the other was a semi-automatic. The single shot could hit the target perfectly everytime, but the semi-automatic - due to the law surrounding it - wasn't allow to be rifled, and when you shot it you couldn't hit bugger all. When the C02 cartridge ran down you could actually watch the pellets veering off.
Ranger Mike said:Is not the modern profile of a bullet vastly more aerodynamic than a round ball?
would not the bullet have more speed due to less aero drag than the ball and thus have more impact ( is both weighed the same). Or am i a victim of out dated thinking?
sophiecentaur said:That was no air gun - it was a popgun, my boy!![]()
jarednjames said:It fired a .22 pellet 100 yards and (when on target) could drop a hare in one shot. That's one hell of a "popgun".
sophiecentaur said:Different circumstances call for either maximum momentum or maximum energy. Sometimes a shotgun is what you need.
sophiecentaur said:Sounds quite pokey but totally spoiled by the regulations.
sophiecentaur said:I think it's up to you to suggest "why not?", perhaps.
Isn't the point of the rifling, to give better range? Surely a tumbling bullet would be less aerodynamic and slow down quicker. A ball, of the same mass would be wider and experience more drag than a bullet shaped projectile so a spinning bullet is the best buy.
I wonder whether the gas seal whilst in the barrel is better, too.
Tyrannical said:but it also causes the bullet to meet less air resistance when traveling.
jarednjames said:OK, this has been bothering me for a while and I must ask - why does it encounter less air resistance?
Tyrannical said:The short answer is it is aerodynamicIf it wasn't spinning, it would be prone to tumbling. Just image throwing a football (US) properly with spin, versus throwing it spinning end over end. The nose of the bullet (or football) sort of pushes the air around it.
I suppose the same reason nails are pointy at the end instead of flat, when you pound it into wood the wood splits at the point of the nail.
The much longer answer...
http://waterocket.explorer.free.fr/aerodynamics.htm"
Tyrannical said:It's not the spinning, it's that the spinning keeps the bullet straight and hence more aerodynamic. If it didn't spin it would tumble instead of fly straight.
jarednjames said:I fully understand that, but that doesn't mean it reduces air resistance.
The air resistance a spinning bullet undergoes is equal to that of a non-spinning bullet. It's not until the bullet is tumbling that this changes. So the gyroscopic forces prevent the tumbling occurring.
However, the air resistance each encounters up to that point is identical. It's only that one reacts and the other is able to resist.
I'm not seeing it as reducing air resistance, more that it has an increased ability to withstand it.
sophiecentaur said:As soon as a non spinning bullet emerges, it will tend to yaw / pitch and that will introduce more drag. I can't imagine that tumbling can take very long to occur. SO, albeit as a consequence of not spinning, the drag will end up much higher so the range will suffer - as well as producing the Magnus effect.
I don't understand your last sentence. You don't "withstand" air resistance (except by using an engine), all you can do is to reduce it by a suitable orientation in flight.
jarednjames said:Yes, but people seem to confuse the ability of a small bullet going faster with it's ability to "stop" someone. One of the reasons for hollow point 9mm ammo is to give greater stopping power to the weapon.
kjohnson said:Obviously there is some debate between energy and stopping power possessed by a bullet. Now I am no expert on firearms or ammunition, but here is my take:
A smaller bullet my be able to be fired with a greater velocity thus increasing its kinetic energy greatly since KE=(1/2)mv^2. But if a small bullet encounters less resistance while traveling through the target then it will leave the target with some velocity left. So the energy transferred to the target is equal to the difference in kinetic energy of bullet (neglecting heat, etc.).
Now a larger bullet may carry less initial kinetic energy, but experience enough resistance to stop somewhere in the target (or at least come out with a much lower velocity). Because of this the change in KE and thus energy transferred will be greater.
Of course this is not taking into effect the tumbling of the bullet within the target. If a small fast bullet tumbles withing the target then its velocity will greatly slowed or stopped causing much greater stopping power. I've heard of those little 22 caliber bullets people like to make fun of doing a lot of damage because of this. They enter the target tumble around and don't exit. So in a pure physical sense stopping power is only related to the amount of energy transfer. Taking into account what vitals are hit and bleed out times is an entire different story. This is only talking about the stopping force felt.
jarednjames said:I fully understand that, but that doesn't mean it reduces air resistance.
The air resistance a spinning bullet undergoes is equal to that of a non-spinning bullet. It's not until the bullet is tumbling that this changes. So the gyroscopic forces prevent the tumbling occurring.
However, the air resistance each encounters up to that point is identical. It's only that one reacts and the other is able to resist.
I'm not seeing it as reducing air resistance, more that it has an increased ability to withstand it.
kjohnson said:Obviously there is some debate between energy and stopping power possessed by a bullet. Now I am no expert on firearms or ammunition
jarednjames said:A larger bullet has more stopping power. There's no debate on that.
A .45 can stop a person more effectively than a 9mm. And a .50 more effectively than that.
Remember, stopping power is not the same as ability to kill or damage done.
Tyrannical said:No, stopping power is determined by how much energy is transferred from the projectile to the target. It is affected by both the mass and velocity of the bullet, as well as to how it behaves when it strikes the target.
Stopping power is a colloquial term used to describe the ability of a firearm or other weapon to cause a penetrating ballistic injury to a target, human or animal, sufficient to incapacitate the target where it stands.
sophiecentaur said:Aren't you describing Shells, rather than Bullets" Plenty of personal firearms have a mass less than 10kg!
For a gun held by a person, the momentum available for the projectile is limited by the amount that will knock him over backwards- in fact a lot less. This can hardly significantly "stop" anyone's forward motion by momentum transfer.
Of course, I know that a good bigun beats a good littleun but as to the Physics involved? That's another question. I suspect it may be something to do with the effect of a hefty shockwave on the nerves of the target, rather than a but of mechanics.
Once your knees have buckled, you are, effectively Stopped.
sophiecentaur said:Yes.
We're into one of those topics that are really outside the realms of Physics. Unfortunately, people seem to want to quantify things that are unquantifiable in simple engineering terms.
A proper Physicist should take a step backwards here, I think. Fools rush in. . .
sophiecentaur said:Btw, if a tennis ball hit me hard, I'd stop and go home. Am I just weedy?