The discussion revolves around the nature of electron flow in batteries, specifically whether batteries supply electrons or merely create an electric field that facilitates their movement. Participants explore the implications of these ideas in the context of electrical circuits and the principles of charge conservation.
Participants express differing views on whether batteries supply electrons or merely create conditions for their movement. There is no consensus on the implications of these distinctions, and the discussion remains unresolved.
Some participants highlight the limitations of models used to describe battery behavior, noting that they may not fully capture the underlying physics. The discussion also touches on the nuances of voltage and EMF, with varying interpretations of their meanings in practical applications.
Individuals interested in electrical engineering, physics, and the conceptual understanding of battery operation may find this discussion relevant.
I guess to add a Shakespearian flare, "...to supply or not supply, that is the question". In other words, is there a source of charged particles coming from the battery or not? This video seems to suggest that there are no electrons coming out of the battery.Dale said:
Electrons come out of the - terminal and go in the + terminal.John Mohr said:
Mmm... I must not be understanding something here quite right. When you say 'new' in the first question above, I would have assumed yes because in order for there to be a current, there has to be some input for that current. This current then ends up at the positive terminal where the electrons enter the battery.kuruman said:
Yes, this is what I have thought as well, but the video clip seems to say something different.Dale said:
Not 'inaccurate', so much as 'incomplete'. The Voltage that the battery can supply (Joules per Coulomb delivered) is modified by the Current (Coulombs per second) flowing though and will always be less than the so-called electromotive force. The EMF is the limiting voltage as the current approaches zero and when no energy is lost in the battery. The (again, so-called) Internal Resistance of the battery is a term used for the mechanism for the internally lost Power (I2R0). The mechanism can be treated as a small series resistance but is not actually constant for all values of current but is near enough for Jazz. You cannot 'look inside' a cell and measure the emf under load. It's all just a handy model - as are many of the Equivalent Circuits we use in EE.vanhees71 said:
I think this needs to be reiterated. The Thevenin equivalent ideal battery (ideal source+ series resister) is no more "physical" than the Norton equivalent (ideal source + parallel resister) . Many folks wander off the garden path by believing the model is reality.sophiecentaur said:
That’s a sign of a very elfie attitude. (Sorry)hutchphd said:
I am also convinced that there were three elves wearing space suits, in the cathode of every colour CRT. Their job was to select only the red, green or the blue coloured electrons, then load them into the appropriate gun.hutchphd said:
I had great problems stopping the lovely James Burke (of BBC TV fame) from talking on air about red green and blue electrons in one of his series. He did listen to me eventually and never spoke those words. They did, at least, use Scientific advisors for his programmes. No absolute howlers went out (not that I noticed)Baluncore said:
Not elves, but Maxwell's Demons.Baluncore said:
Breaftakingly bad. 'earty congratulations.sophiecentaur said: