Does Fluid Near Solid Interfaces Move Faster Due to Viscosity Differences?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of fluid dynamics near solid interfaces, specifically questioning whether fluid near a solid surface moves faster than fluid further away. Participants explore concepts related to viscosity differences and boundary layer theory, with a focus on the Navier-Stokes equations and their implications in real-life scenarios.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Diego, a newcomer with a background in Computer Science, observes that fluid near solid interfaces appears to move faster than fluid above it and speculates this may relate to viscosity differences.
  • One participant clarifies that, according to boundary layer theory, fluid at the solid surface has zero velocity relative to the surface, contradicting Diego's observation.
  • Diego mentions using a no-slip boundary condition in his Navier-Stokes solver but expresses uncertainty about the fluid's behavior in relation to external forces and real-life wave dynamics.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the no-slip condition mathematically supports the idea that fluid is motionless at the wall, and external forces are not necessary for this condition to hold.
  • References to foundational texts on fluid dynamics and boundary layer theory are provided, suggesting further reading for deeper understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the behavior of fluid near solid interfaces, with Diego's initial impression being challenged by another participant's explanation of boundary layer theory. The discussion remains unresolved as differing interpretations of fluid motion are presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of fluid dynamics and the importance of boundary conditions in solving the Navier-Stokes equations. There are indications of missing assumptions regarding the conditions under which Diego's observations were made.

diegolas
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Hi all,

This is my first post and my background is in Computer Science, so pardon me if my terminology is not correct or even I sound ignorant Physics-wise :)

Anyways, I implemented a semi-Lagrangian based Navier-Stokes (NS) solver and it's running smoothly on a CUDA-capable GPU and I wondered if you guys can help me with something I noticed (maybe it's a law or maybe I'm just wrong).

Question: I got the impression from watching how fluids behave in real life (and for instance in the beach), and I think the fluid near the solid interface (e.g. sand for that matter) moves faster than the one on top? Is it true? Why is it? Intuitively I thought it may have to do with the delta in the viscosity (say, solid/sand - water interface), so the fluid "slips" more easily? If so, if I was to generalize the fact, is it true that the water near the solid moves faster than the one in "the middle" and near the air (maybe if we assume ideal conditions, no gravity, etc)?

Is there any law describing this? I mean, probably can be guessed from NSE but I was wondering if this has any fancy name.

Could you please recommend me literature so I can dig in more about this? I don't have access to ScienceDirect right now, and I'm not probably buying any book in the near future, so if it's not too much asking, I'd like to suggest you guys point me to papers available online?

Cheers,
Diego
 
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What you are talking about is the boundary layer, which is opposite to what you describe. A fluid at te solid surface does not move at all, actually. This is one of the fundamental boundary conditions for the NS equations so it leads me to wonder how you were solving it without that BC.

At any rate, fluid near a surface has zero velocity (with respect to the surface) and increases as you move away from the surface. There are tons of papers on it from around the turn of the century, but they are so old you may have trouble finding them. I know you seem averse to books, but I would suggest looking at "Viscous Fluid Flow" by Frank White. It has everything you Should need. If you want to dig even deeper, "Boundary Layer Theory" by Schlichting is the "sacred text" on the subject.
 
Thanks for the reply :)

Well, I didn't mention it but I was solving it with no-slip BC. But in any case, what I was trying to do is to inject external (arbitrary) forces so the fluid (water) behaves like real-life waves --maybe I have to look how water moves again.

Thanks for the bibliography, I'll try to get the books though I doubt the library has them xD
 
If it is a university library then I guarantee they have them.

At any rate, th no-slip condition is simply a mathematical translation of what I said. The fluid is motionless with respect to the wall it contacts. No external forces are needed because the boundary condition takes care of that for you.

For example, if you solve just the plain NS equations over a flat plate you get the Blasius solution, which precisely shows the boundary layer. It is one of the few analytical solutions that are possible, yet one of the most important.
 

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