Does molecular flatness affect friction differently?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the impact of molecular flatness on friction between two surfaces, one completely flat at the molecular level and the other slightly uneven. Participants explore the theoretical implications of surface characteristics on frictional forces, considering both general physics principles and molecular interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant hypothesizes that a completely flat surface would have more friction compared to a slightly uneven surface when a flat block is slid across them.
  • Another participant suggests that the uneven surface would produce more friction due to molecular interactions, as the 'valleys' could trap the block's molecules, increasing friction.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that friction is influenced by molecular attraction and the need to break weak bonds, questioning the relationship between surface area and friction.
  • Participants reference external sources to support their claims and provide additional context on the nature of friction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on whether molecular flatness directly correlates with friction levels. Multiple competing views remain regarding the factors that influence friction, including surface characteristics and molecular interactions.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the relationship between surface area and friction, noting that the observed results may not be straightforward and depend on various assumptions about molecular interactions.

hav0c
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We have two surfaces
One is completely flat even on molecular scale (hypothetically)
the other is a little uneven (but still much less than actual values, ill go with the hills and valleys view)
The object used is completely flat for both case( a block)will the completely flat surface have more friction?
i think it would
(edit: both the surfaces are made up of the same substance)
 
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is this a stupid question?
 
It's certainly not a stupid question, this is typically how we're taught to think of friction in a general physics class. There's a bit more to it than simply shape, but the more uneven surface should produce more friction when you slide a block across. The 'valleys' allow for places for the block's molecules to get caught and produce more friction.
 
I thought friction between apparently smooth surfaces was largely to do with attraction at the molecular level. You're constantly having to break weak bonds that spontaneously form. That is the answer offered at http://library.thinkquest.org/C006300/data/seven3_1.htm and at http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_causes_friction_and_why_does_it_occur.
Whether it's nubs or bonds, the hard part is explaining why it depends almost exclusively on normal load and hardly at all on contact area. I suppose the mean separation of the surfaces would be greater with a larger area, but it's far from obvious that this leads to the observed result.
But see also http://lima.osu.edu/academics/physics/Student%20Contributions/What%20is%20friction.html
 
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