Does pressure affect the thermal breakdown of water?

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    Pressure Thermal Water
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the thermal breakdown (thermolysis) of water and the potential influence of pressure on this process. Participants explore the relationship between temperature, pressure, and the efficiency of breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen, considering both theoretical and experimental aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that approximately 3000°C is required for the thermal breakdown of water and questions how pressure might affect this temperature requirement.
  • Another participant references Le Chatelier's principle, suggesting that increased pressure could shift the equilibrium back towards the formation of water during thermolysis.
  • A participant discusses the relationship between pressure and the entropy component of Gibbs energy, indicating that while the heat component remains unchanged, increased pressure may lead to a higher thermolysis temperature and more energy required for decomposition.
  • There is a query about the separation and maintenance of hydrogen and oxygen gases, with a suggestion that this might be easier at lower pressures.
  • One participant mentions ultrasonic resonant cavitation experiments that achieve extremely high temperatures (between 10,000 K and 20,000 K) as a potential area of interest.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on how pressure affects the thermal breakdown of water, with no consensus reached on the implications of pressure on thermolysis temperature or the efficiency of the process.

Contextual Notes

There are assumptions regarding the efficiency of pumps and the applicability of theoretical principles like Gibbs free energy, which may not hold in practical scenarios. The discussion also touches on the complexities of gas separation under different pressure conditions.

some bloke
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TL;DR
see title
As per the title, I'm trying to research how the thermal breakdown (thermolysis) of water works. I gather that you need circa 3000°C to get it to break down, which is a lot, and I'm curious as to how pressure might affect this.

I know that pressure affects the boiling point of water, and as such was concerned that a theoretical device which compresses superheated steam to increase it's temperature might counteract the desired effects of thermolysis by the increase of pressure making the required temperature for thermolysis higher.

I'd appreciate any reading that people can direct me to on this subject, I am contemplating a combination of heat, pressure and electrolysis for breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen. I don't want to make the mistake of only considering the energy in this!
 
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some bloke said:
Summary: see title

As per the title, I'm trying to research how the thermal breakdown (thermolysis) of water works. I gather that you need circa 3000°C to get it to break down, which is a lot, and I'm curious as to how pressure might affect this.
Qualitatively, the Le Chatelier`s principle is applicable here. Thermolizing water increase pressure (two water molecules split into one molecule of oxygen and two of hydrogen), therefore increased pressure shift equilibrum back to formation of water.
some bloke said:
I'd appreciate any reading that people can direct me to on this subject, I am contemplating a combination of heat, pressure and electrolysis for breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen. I don't want to make the mistake of only considering the energy in this!
In detail, effect of pressure is affecting the entropy component ΔS of Gibbs energy , while heat component ΔH is unchanged. Therefore, with increased pressure, your energy expended to reach desired decomposition yield should not change if pump is 100% efficient, but termolizis temperature will increase. To calculate temperature of 50% thermolysis yield, your should solve Gibbs free energy equation ΔH-TΔS=0.

Of course, in real world 100% efficient pumps do not exist, therefore high pressure thermolysis of water will require more energy compared to ambient pressure thermolysis.
 
some bloke said:
Summary: see title

I gather that you need circa 3000°C to get it to break down, which is a lot, and I'm curious as to how pressure might affect this.
How do you separate, and then maintain separation, of the O2 and H2 gas? I would expect that to be easier at low pressure, rather than very high pressure.

Maybe you should look at the ultrasonic resonant cavitation experiments that reach temperatures between 10,000 K and 20,000 K.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoluminescence
 

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