Does twisted light violate Fermat's principle?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around whether twisted light violates Fermat's principle, particularly in the context of its propagation characteristics and implications for refraction and refractive laws. Participants explore the nature of twisted light, its trajectory, and how it relates to established optical principles.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question if twisted light, which they describe as propagating in a curved line, violates Fermat's principle and the laws of refraction.
  • Others seek clarification on the meaning of "propagating in curved line" and request references to support claims.
  • It is noted that the trajectory of the phase of the electromagnetic wave of twisted light is helical, but some participants clarify that this does not equate to the propagation trajectory.
  • One participant mentions that no physical principles are violated by twisted light, suggesting that the propagation velocity is affected by the local Poynting vector.
  • There is a distinction made between twisted light and circularly polarized light, emphasizing that twisted light has a spatially varying phase front.
  • Participants discuss the relationship between accelerated light and twisted light, with some asserting that they are fundamentally different and that ray trajectories of accelerated light do not violate Fermat's principle.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether twisted light violates Fermat's principle, with some asserting it does not while others remain uncertain. The discussion includes competing interpretations of the nature of twisted light and its implications for established optical principles.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of twisted light and accelerated light, as well as the assumptions underlying the claims about their trajectories and implications for Fermat's principle.

fxdung
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The twisted light propagate in curved line, then does twisted light violate Ferma's priciple?And then it violate refraction and refractive laws?
 
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fxdung said:
The twisted light propagate in curved line, ...
What do you mean? Please provide a reference for the "propagating in curved line" part.
 
fxdung said:
The twisted light propagate in curved line, then does twisted light violate Ferma's priciple?And then it violate refraction and refractive laws?

Don't mistake the behavior of the field vectors for the direction of travel.
 
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In Optics by Hecht, he say the trajectory of phase of EM wave of twisted light is helix.
 
fxdung said:
In Optics by Hecht, he say the trajectory of phase of EM wave of twisted light is helix.
An exact quote would be helpful.

It sounds like he is speaking of a circularly polarized light beam and is depicting the direction and magnitude of the electric or magnetic field vectors at each point on the beam as if they were physical displacements of the beam.

As @Drakkith points out, those lateral vectors are not displacements (e.g. in centimeters) but are field strengths (e.g. in volts/meter).
 
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fxdung said:
In Optics by Hecht, he say the trajectory of phase of EM wave of twisted light is helix.
Trajectory of phase is not the propagation trajectory. The propagation direction is the straight green axis below.

Helix_oam.png


From:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_angular_momentum_of_light
 
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The phase velocity is greater c if propagation velocity is c?
 
No, actually you get a local modification of the Poynting vector. The propagation velocity along the green axis will be slightly less than c because the local Poynting vector is slightly tilted away from the green axis at every point. See the following image:

Poynting.jpg


This image was shamelessly stolen from the following talk slides by Miles Padgett: https://www.gla.ac.uk/media/Media_263851_smxx.pdf

And just for the record as people often confuse that: Twisted light is not circularly polarized light, but light with a spatially varying phase front, usually a helical gradient of multiples of 2 pi.
 
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  • #10
I think this only happens close to the source, within its radiation near zone, or within a waveguide.
 
  • #11
So, is there any difference between accelerated light and twisted light?If accelerated light propagate on curved trajectory, then does it violate Ferma's principle?
 
Last edited:
  • #12
fxdung said:
So, is there any difference between accelerated light and twisted light?If accelerated light propagate on curved trajectory, then does it violate Ferma's principle?

Twisted and accelerated light are totally different things. Ray trajectories associated with accelerated light do not violate Fermat's principle.
 

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