Dual Gauge Curvature for U(1) and SU(3)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of dual gauge curvature in the context of U(1) and SU(3) gauge theories. Participants explore the implications of dualizing the abelian electromagnetic gauge and the challenges associated with nonabelian gauge connections, particularly in relation to curvature tensors and the Poincaré lemma.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Laura discusses the dual of the Maxwell tensor and questions how to dualize the abelian electromagnetic gauge, noting that the dual gauge connection may only work if the charge-current vector is zero.
  • Laura proposes that in quantum applications, the gauge connection would be source-free, as charges and currents are represented by wavefunctions rather than fields.
  • Laura introduces a covariant derivative based on a gauge potential derived from the Hodge dual of the Maxwell tensor, suggesting that it can be applied to wavefunctions.
  • Laura describes the gauge connection for SU(3) and the implications of using matrices from the Lie algebra, including the need for unitary transformations to preserve inner products of wavefunctions.
  • Laura notes the curvature of the connection and its relation to the Bianchi identity, expressing uncertainty about finding a curvature tensor that incorporates both spacetime and gauge curvature.
  • Another participant expresses confusion and suggests that the covariant derivative should behave multiplicatively, while also noting that the field-strength does not reflect the curvature of the manifold.
  • This participant adapts the concept of Christoffel symbols to color transformations and discusses the challenges of deriving a curvature tensor when both spacetime and gauge curvatures are present.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of confusion and uncertainty regarding the definitions and implications of dual gauge curvature, particularly in the context of nonabelian gauge theories. There is no consensus on the correct approach or interpretation of the concepts discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their understanding of the relationship between gauge curvature and spacetime curvature, as well as the applicability of the Poincaré lemma in this context. There are unresolved mathematical steps and dependencies on definitions that affect the discussion.

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http://camoo.freeshell.org/25.8.pdf"

Laura

Latex source below. I won't be changing this if I edit the file, it's just for convenience if you want to grab latex code.


n sec. 25.8, he
says "recall the dual $^\ast F$ of the Maxwell tensor F. We could imagine
a 'dual' U(1) gauge connection that has $^\ast F$ as its bundle curvature"
and then he says there's a problem with using the dual curvature of a
nonabelian gauge. First, though, what happens if you try to dualize the
abelian electromagnetic gauge?

If you have the Maxwell tensor $F_{ab}$, you can recover a vector
potential $A$ from it: $$A_b(\vec{x}) = \int_0^1 {uF_{ab}x^adu}$$


Similarly, if you take the Hodge dual $^\ast F_{ab}$ of $F_{ab}$, you can
define a gauge potential from it using a potential $Z$ derived from $^\ast
F_{ab}$ $$Z_b(\vec{x}) = \int_0^1 {u^\ast F_{ab}x^adu}$$

This only works if $d^\ast F_{ab} = 0$, i.e. the charge-current vector
$J=0$. It's an application of the Poincare' lemma, which says that in a
contractible (small, topologically simple) region, a form $F$ with $dF=0$
is the exterior derivative of another form.

I totally wracked my brains about it and I couldn't
see how you could use $^\ast F$ as a gauge curvature \emph{unless} $d^\ast
F=0$.

And after I thought about it some \underline{more} I figured that in the
application of a dual gauge connection, the field probably \emph{would} be
source-free, because the gauge connection's applied to quantum
wavefunctions and when you're at the quantum level, you wouldn't have a
charge-current vector. Any charges and currents would be explicit as
particle wavefunctions, not as the field.

You could add any gradient $d\phi$ to $Z_b$: $Z^\prime_b = Z_b +
\partial\phi/\partial x^b$ gives the same $^\ast F_{ab}$.

From Z you can define a covariant derivative $\nabla_a\psi =
\partial\psi/\partial x^a - ieZ_a\psi$. I guess this connection would be
applied to wavefunctions.

If you have a nonabelian gauge group SU(3), then you'd have a gauge
connection $$\nabla_a\psi= \partial\psi/\partial x^a - C_a\psi$$. Here the
$C_a$'s are matrices in the Lie group algebra of SU(3), operating on a
wavefunction that has a color index. So $\psi = y_1 |red> + y_2 |green> +
y_3 |blue>$ and $|y_1|^2 + |y_2|^2 + |y_3|^2 = 1$, so that the gauge group
SU(3) is acting as transformations on $S^6$. The dimension of the unitary
group U(3) is $3^2=9$ (see sec. 13.10), so the dimension of the Lie
algebra of SU(3), the unitary matrices of determinant 1, is 8. I read
later that there are basis elements for the Lie algebra, trace-free $3
\times 3$ Hermitian matrices called Gell-Mann matrices, for the inventor
of the color theory.

The $C_a$'s are $i\times$ a Hermitian matrix. Since $e^{iH}$ is unitary
if H is Hermitian, this gives you a unitary transform if you're
integrating $\nabla_a$; taking a path integral, with the Lie algebra
elements varying over space should (though I haven't shown it rigorously)
integrate to a matrix in SU(3). The gauge transformation has to be
unitary because it should preserve the inner product $<\psi|\phi>$ of two
wavefunctions. And the gauge transformation should not change the
wavefunction of a 3-quark combination that's been antisymmetrized with
respect to color, because such a particle is a free particle, so the
covariant gauge derivative shouldn't affect it. That implies it has
determinant 1.

The curvature of the connection $\nabla_a\psi= \partial\psi/\partial x^a -
C_a\psi$ is $$\nabla_a\nabla_b - \nabla_b\nabla_a =
\frac{\partial C_a}{\partial x^b} - \frac{\partial C_b}{\partial x^a} +
C_aC_b - C_bC_a$$

This is a 2-form $S_{ab}$ with hidden color indices. It satisfies a
Bianchi identity $\partial S_{[ab}/\partial x^{c]} =0$, I checked.

I tried to find a curvature tensor for a connection with \emph{both} a
spacetime curvature and curvature on the color indices (the gauge
curvature), but it didn't work, that is the commutator $(\nabla_a\nabla_b
- \nabla_b\nabla_a)\psi$ didn't work out to something multiplied by just
$\psi$. Trying to quantize gravity!

You can find the Hodge dual $^\ast S_{ab}$ and try to interpret it as a
curvature tensor. But, with a nonabelian gauge the commutator $C_aC_b -
C_bC_a$ doesn't disappear, so the gauge curvature doesn't look like the
exterior derivative of a form. So the Poincare' lemma might not apply.
If you could show that $^\ast S_{ab}$ doesn't
satisfy the Bianchi identity $\partial S_{[ab}/\partial x^{c]} =0$, that
would show that $^\ast S_{ab}$ isn't a curvature tensor, at least
for a connection of the form $\nabla_a\psi= \partial\psi/\partial x^a -
C_a\psi$ - since I checked that $S_{ab}$ does satisfy this Bianchi
identity! The terms in the Bianchi identity for $^\ast S_{ab}$ are a lot
of complicated stuff that doesn't look like it would have a habit of
summing to 0.

If $^\ast S_{ab}$ \emph{did} satisfy the Bianchi identity $\partial
S_{[ab}/\partial x^{c]} =0$, maybe that would mean it's a curvature tensor
for a connection of the form $\nabla_a\psi= \partial\psi/\partial x^a -
C_a\psi$. I don't know, since the
the Poincare' lemma doesn't necessarily apply.

So that is my best take on a confusing exercise!

\end{document}
 
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Confusing to say the least. But I believe that D_{[a} D_{b]} where D_a = \nabla_a +A_a should behave multiplicatively. Perhaps that is not the best definition of D. In any event, the field-strength F doesn't reflect the curvature of the manifold since it is determined as an exterior derivative. But *F will because the metric is needed to construct the Hodge dual.

So normally one would write instead D = dx^\mu \partial_\mu \wedge + \mathbf{A}_\mu dx^\mu \wedge = dx^\mu (\partial_\mu + \mathbf{A}_\mu) \wedge = dx^\mu D_\mu \wedge so that the covariant derivative doesn't carry a Christoffel symbol. The christoffel symbol part does start popping up when you have expressions like D_\mu D^\mu \phi = 0 from equations of motion, say, but for the definition of F, it is absent.
 
lbrits said:
Confusing to say the least. But I believe that D_{[a} D_{b]} where D_a = \nabla_a +A_a should behave multiplicatively. Perhaps that is not the best definition of D. In any event, the field-strength F doesn't reflect the curvature of the manifold since it is determined as an exterior derivative. But *F will because the metric is needed to construct the Hodge dual.

So normally one would write instead D = dx^\mu \partial_\mu \wedge + \mathbf{A}_\mu dx^\mu \wedge = dx^\mu (\partial_\mu + \mathbf{A}_\mu) \wedge = dx^\mu D_\mu \wedge so that the covariant derivative doesn't carry a Christoffel symbol. The christoffel symbol part does start popping up when you have expressions like D_\mu D^\mu \phi = 0 from equations of motion, say, but for the definition of F, it is absent.

I adapted the language of Christoffel symbols to the color transformation - so my "Christoffel" symbols have two color indices. I adapted the derivation of the Riemann tensor to the gauge curvature. I was doing it in flat spacetime - I made a comment in there that I'd tried to get a "curvature tensor" when there was spacetime curvature as well as the gauge curvature - but I wasn't getting a tensor out of it, i.e.
(\nabla_b\nabla_a - \nabla_a\nabla_b)\psi wasn't a function just of \psi. So the curvature tensor S_{ab} only refers to the gauge curvature. If you had curved spacetime, the gauge transformation matrices C_{a} have one spacetime index, so \nabla_aC_{a}\neq\partial C_{a}/\partial x^a. When you were deriving \nabla_b\nabla_a - \nabla_a\nabla_b) you'd have spacetime Christoffel symbols applied to the partial derivatives of the C_{a}'s. A mess! Maybe it would be a tensor if I did it right, but it's be a complicated thing!

The Christoffel symbols are essentially matrices in various directions. If you're approximating something on a small scale you use a linear (first order) approximation. So the Christoffel symbols are the general linear approximation of some alternative definition for the "change" along a curve. For Riemannian curvature, it's defining what is parallel transport. For the gauge curvature, it's defining what it means for the wavefunction to "not change" along a path.

So what I called {C_{ab}}^c, in the usual language of quantum mechanics are expressed in terms of sums d_a^bG_b where the G_b&#039;s are the 8 Gell-Mann matrices (I don't remember which exact letters they use but that's more or less how they'd write it). The Lie algebra of SU(3) has diimension 8 so there are 8 GM matrices.
Laura
 
The covariant derivative \nabla_a\psi = <br /> \partial\psi/\partial x^a - ieA_a\psi is kind of strange, because it doesn't follow the Leibnitz rule if you applied it to 2 wavefunctions multiplied together. A covariant derivative is supposed to be a linear operator and to follow the Leibnitz rule. At least before you start including spin states etc., the wavefunction is simply a scalar field on spacetime and \nabla_a(\psi\phi) should =\psi\nabla_a\phi+\phi \nabla_a\psi. So I guess you have to make special rules as to what kind of scalar field the Leibnitz rule applies to, or in what situations exactly you're using the covariant derivative.
 
scary...
 

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