Dynamic Systems - DE with Unit Impulse

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a differential equation involving a unit impulse function, specifically focusing on the expression for y(t) and the implications of simplifying terms under the assumption that c is much larger than a. Participants explore the evaluation of integrals, the representation of delta functions, and the conditions under which certain terms can be neglected.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an integral evaluation for y(t) but struggles to eliminate the variable c from the final expression.
  • Another participant suggests simplifying the expression using the assumption c >> |a| before evaluating the integral.
  • A different evaluation leads to a simpler form of y(t) expressed as a function of delta, raising questions about the validity of this simplification.
  • Concerns are raised about the consistency of the differential equation when different forms of y(t) are derived, particularly regarding the presence of the term ay.
  • One participant posits that the differential equation can be satisfied approximately under the assumption c >> |a|, and suggests plotting to compare different forms of the solution.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the evaluation of the integral and the implications of simplifying terms. There is no consensus on the best approach to eliminate c or on the equivalence of the different forms of y(t) derived from various simplification steps.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the simplifications depend heavily on the assumption that c is significantly larger than a, which may not hold in all scenarios. The discussion highlights the potential loss of information when terms are removed or simplified.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and practitioners dealing with differential equations, particularly in the context of impulse responses in dynamic systems.

Graphite
Messages
7
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


y(t) = e^{a(t-t_{0})} y(t_{0}) + \int_{t_{0}}^{t} e^{a(t-\tau)}b \dot{u} (\tau) d\tau
u(t) = \delta(t) = \frac{1}{2} c^{3} t^{2} e^{-ct}
where c >> |a|, t_0 = 0, and y(0) = 0
Find y(t) and represent the unit impulse, delta, in the solution. The remaining
terms should not contain c.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


Evaluating the integral, I got
y = \frac{1}{2}bc^{3} \left( e^{-ct} \left(\frac{(ct^{2}-2t)(a+c)^{2}+(2ct-2)(a+c)+2c}{(a+c)^{3}} \right) + e^{at} \frac{2a}{(a+c)^{3}} \right)
However, I'm stuck at trying to substitute in delta to get a function that does not have the variable c in it. I'm assuming that since c >> |a|, then the terms with (a+c) will simplify to just c
y = \frac{1}{2}b \left( e^{-ct} \left((ct^{2}-2t)(c)^{2}+(2ct-2)(c)+2c \right) + e^{at} {2a}\right)
When I simplify it further, I am still unable to get it in a form without c. I'm thinking that I made a mistake somewhere in calculating the integral, but Matlab is giving me the similar result so I"m not sure where the problem is.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I get something different when I evaluate the integral, but nevermind that. Try simplifying using c >> |a| before you evaluate the integral.
 
Doing that, I'm getting
y = \frac{1}{2} b c^{3} t^{2} e^{(a-c)t} = be^{at}\delta(t)
which is much simpler.

I just realized that I forgot to post the DE at the beginning, which is
\dot{y} = ay + b \dot{u}
When I try taking the derivative of y, I'm getting
\dot{y} = abe^{at}\delta(t) + be^{at}\dot{\delta}(t) = ay + be^{at} \dot{u}(t)
I'm assuming that since \dot{u}(t) has the term e^{-ct}, then the e^{at} will disappear, which would satisfy the DE.
Why is it that if I were to simplify y at the beginning to
y = \frac{1}{2} b c^{3} t^{2} e^{(-c)t} = b\delta(t)
and then taking the derivative,
\dot{y} = b\dot{u}(t)
Why is it that now it does not satisfy the DE, since ay is now missing? I'm curious as to why removing the variable a when it's being added/subtracted from c results in different forms depending on the step at which the simplification is done. Are all of the forms roughly equivalent to each other or something?

Thank you for the help.
 
Graphite said:
Why is it that now it does not satisfy the DE, since ay is now missing?
It does satisfy the DE, approximately, assuming ##c \gg |a|##. You can try plotting:
$$
\dot{y} = \frac{d}{dt}\left[be^{at} \delta(t)\right]\\
\dot{y} = \frac{d}{dt}\left[b \delta(t)\right]
$$
for some values of ##a,b,c##. Their graphs should be almost identical.

You have something "missing", because you've removed more information from the solution, comparatively - that has to be reflected somewhere.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
Replies
19
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
2K