Finding Impulse Response from Block Diagram

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the impulse response from a block diagram in a control systems context. Participants are exploring the relationship between input and output in terms of transfer functions and impulse responses, with a focus on the mathematical formulation and notation used in the problem.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the origin of the exponential term in the impulse response, questioning the derivation steps and the role of the variable v.
  • Another participant suggests that the evolution of the exponential term can be clarified by using the Laplace transform and replacing the integrator with a 1/s block.
  • A participant confirms the equation for v' as v' = abu + av and discusses the implications of taking the Laplace transform of this equation.
  • There is a correction regarding notation, with one participant clarifying that "μ" refers to the unit step function, while "u" is used for the input.
  • Another participant challenges the correctness of the output equation provided, suggesting an alternative formulation and emphasizing the standard notation for the unit step function.
  • One participant acknowledges their mistake after receiving feedback from others.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the correct formulation of the output and the appropriate notation for functions. There is no consensus on the derivation steps or the interpretation of the variables involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions of variables and the implications of different notations, which may affect the clarity of the discussion. The mathematical steps involved in the derivation remain unresolved.

Graphite
Messages
7
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


Capture.PNG


Where $$v = y - bu$$
It's given that the transfer function is
$$h(t) = b u(t) + v(t) = b \delta(t) + e^{at}b \mu(t)$$

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


I can't seem to figure out how the impulse response above was found. I understand that the impulse response is y when ##u = \delta(t)##, but I'm not sure where the exponential comes from. One of the steps in the problem is
$$
y(t) = bu(t) + \int_{t_{0}}^{t} e^{a(t-\tau)} abu (\tau) d \tau
$$
where the second term on the right is v. Going by the diagram, shouldn't v be equal to the following?
$$
v = \int_{t_{0}}^{t} u(\tau) ab + v(\tau)a \; d\tau
$$
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Is v' = abu + av or abu - av or what? You need to put + or - signs in front of all your arrows.
The evolution of the exponential term will be apparent if you replace the integrator with a 1/s block and solve for V(s) or Y(s) and then invert back to the time domain.
You wrote "μ" in the exponential term, I think you meant "u".
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Graphite
It's v' = abu + av. The arrows are all positive.
So taking the Laplace transform of v' gives me
$$
\dot{V} = abu + ay \\
s V(s) = ab + a V(s)
$$
Since u is a unit impulse, the transform would just be 1, right? After that,
$$
V(s) = \frac{ab}{s-a} \frac{1}{s}
$$
Using partial fractions, I'm getting
$$
\frac{b}{s-a} - \frac{b}{s} \rightarrow b e^{at} - b
$$
I understand where the exponential is coming from, but I know I'm making a mistake somewhere above since I should be getting ##be^{at} \mu##

I double checked also, and the it is mu that is being used, not u. I think my professor is just using different notation, where u is input and mu is the unit step function.
 
Graphite said:
It's v' = abu + av. The arrows are all positive.
So taking the Laplace transform of v' gives me
$$
\dot{V} = abu + ay \\
No. Look at the diagram.
Further, your "given' output y is wrong. It's y = bδ(t) + ab eat u(t).
But I think you have the right idea, and yes, the laplace transform of δ(t) is 1.

BTW I use u(t) to mean the step function. This is standard notation. I've never seen anyone use μ(t) for that. Use x(t) for the input, not u(t).
 
Last edited:
I'm now seeing where I made my mistake.

Thanks for the help.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
6K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
23
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
6K