Write the differential equation that's equivalent to this transfer function

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving a differential equation from a given transfer function, specifically focusing on the transition from the Laplace domain representation to the time domain. Participants explore the implications of initial conditions and the treatment of the input function.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the disappearance of C(s) and R(s) in the transition from the Laplace domain to the time domain representation.
  • Another participant questions the correctness of the assumption that r(t) equals t^3u(t), suggesting it might be 3t^3u(t) instead.
  • A participant acknowledges uncertainty regarding the correctness of their understanding of r(t) as stated in the solution.
  • One participant proposes that the solution might be incorrect and requests clarification from another participant who suggested a different form for r(t).
  • Another participant explains their approach using the product rule for derivatives and how it leads to the solution, but does not assert it as the only correct method.
  • There is a discussion about the assumptions made regarding initial conditions being zero and how that affects the transformation from the Laplace domain to the time domain.
  • Participants express uncertainty about why the final expression includes δ(t) and how it relates to initial conditions.
  • One participant points out a potential inconsistency in the problem statement regarding the transfer function G(s) and its relation to the input function r(t).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct form of r(t) or the validity of the solution provided. Multiple competing views remain regarding the treatment of the input function and the implications of initial conditions.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential inconsistencies in the problem statement and express uncertainty about the assumptions made, particularly regarding initial conditions and the treatment of the delta function.

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Homework Statement
Write the differential equation that is mathematically equivalent to the transfer function below: G(s) = Y(s) / R(s).

G(s) = C(s) / R(s) = (s^4 + 2s^3 + 5s^2 + s + 1) / (s^5 + 3s^4 + 2s^3 + 4s^2 + 5s + 2)
Relevant Equations
• ##G(s) = Y(s) / R(s)##
• ##r(t) = t^3 u(t)##
I have the solution to the problem, and I mechanically, but not theoretically (basically, why do the C(s) and R(s) disappear?), understand how we go from

##(s^5 + 3s^4 + 2s^3 + 4s^2 + 5s + 2) C(s) = (s^4 + 2s^3 + 5s^2 + s + 1) R(s)##

to

##c^{(5)}(t) + 3c^{(4)}(t) + 2c^{(3)}(t) + 4c^{(2)}(t) + 5c^{(1)}(t) + 2c^{(0)}(t) = r^{(4)}(t) + 2r^{(3)}(t) + 5r^{(2)}(t) + r^{(1)}(t) + r^{(0)}(t)##.

And, then I understand that the ##r(t)## needs to be replaced by ##t^3 u(t)##, but the final answer in the solution is

##c^{(5)}(t) + 3c^{(4)}(t) + 2c^{(3)}(t) + 4c^{(2)}(t) + 5c^{(1)}(t) + 2c^{(0)}(t) = 18δ(t) + (36 + 90t + 9t^2 + 3t^3) u(t)##, and I don't understand the step that leads the previous step to this final answer.

Could someone please help me figure out what it is that the solution did?

Any input would be GREATLY appreciated!
 
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Hi, are you sure that ##r(t)=t^3u(t)## and not ##r(t)=3t^3u(t)## ?
Ssnow
 
I'm not sure of anything ( ;P ), but that ( ##r(t) = t^3 · u(t)## ) is technically what the solution says.
 
Maybe the solution is wrong?

Since no one else answered, @Ssnow, could you please explain to me what you've done just in case you are in fact correct?
 
I simply used ##r(t)=3t^3u(t)## instead yours... , so using the product rules: ## r^{(0)}(t)=3t^3u(t)##, ##r^{(1)}(t)=9t^2u(t) + 3t^3u^{(1)}(t)##, ##r^{(2)}(t)=18tu(t) + ...## higher derivatives for ##u(t)## ... so putting inside your second member that contains the derivatives of ##r(t)##, and collecting the ##u(t)##, we arrive to your solution ...
Ssnow
 
Actually, is the going from (s^5 + 3s^4 + 2s^3 + 4s^2 + 5s + 2) C(s) = (s^4 + 2s^3 + 5s^2 + s + 1) R(s) to ##c^(5) + 3c^(4) + 2c^(3) + 4c^(2) + 5 c^(1) + 2c^(0) = r^(4) + 2r^(3) + 5r^(2) + r^(1) + r^(0)## from the L{f^(n) (t)} = ##s^n F(s) – s^{n-1} f(0) – s^{n-2} f'(0) - . . . – s f^(n-2)(0) – f^(n-1)(0)## property, where all derivatives of f(t), including the 0th derivative, f(t) itself are 0 when t = 0 because the problem statement says to assume that "all initial conditions are equal to zero"?

As for going from the before-last step to the last step, thanks for your response; I now see how plugging in 3t^2 into the derivatives of r(t) and then multiplying by the appropriate coefficients yields the (36 + 90t + 9t^2 + 3t^3) part, but I'm not 100% sure why it's just a u(t) and not a bunch of derivatives of u(t) as well. Am I expected to to compute a monstrosity such as this one ( https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=d^3/dt^3+(3t^3+*+u(t)) ) and then plug in t = 0? If it's the case that t = 0, wouldn't u(t) be u(0) instead? Also, what's with the 18 δ(t)? Does the δ(t) have something to do with the initial condition stuff having it be the case that t = 0?

Edit:
P.S.
I recently realized that the problem statement is inconsistent with the solution for the G(s) = C(s) / R(s) part, but it is consistent in stating that r(t) = u(t) t^3 (whether it's correct or not).
 

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