E8 and Catastrophe Theory(Bifurcation) - help

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The discussion revolves around the search for information on the bifurcation types associated with E8 in catastrophe theory. Participants note that while the ADE classification connects certain catastrophes to Lie groups, E8 is categorized as exceptional and lacks detailed explanations in existing literature. One user expresses frustration at the scarcity of information regarding the stable polynomials and behaviors for E6, E7, and E8. They reference various sources, including Wikipedia and academic papers, but find them insufficient for their needs. The conversation highlights the complexity of understanding E8's relationship to catastrophe theory and the need for more comprehensive resources.
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I've been looking to what kind of bifurcation E8 corresponds to, but I didn´t find anythng. The only place I've found anything was on wikipedia, but it doesn't say anything. Can anyone help me?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catastrophe_theory
 
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MTd2 said:
I've been looking to what kind of bifurcation E8 corresponds to, but I didn´t find anythng. The only place I've found anything was on wikipedia, but it doesn't say anything. Can anyone help me?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catastrophe_theory

Hi MTd2! Are you any relation of R2d2? :smile:

As I expect you found, the A,D,E classification of catastrophes by names beginning with A D and E makes the As correspond to the A series of Lie groups, the Ds to the D series, and the Es to the E series … http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADE_classification

In turn, the A series of Lie groups correspond to SU groups, and the B series to SL groups.

There are also C and D series of Lie groups (not connected with catastrophes), and finally the E F and G series, officially known as "exceptional" cases … http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Lie_group#Infinite_series

so I guess the E8 catastrophe has to be categorised as exceptional, and not corresponding to anything other than itself. :redface:
 
Well, people used to call me R2D2 at college! But that's because I use a wheelchair! :biggrin::biggrin: :smile: :smile: :smile:

Now, seriously, I am asking somthing a little bit different. According to this list provided in the wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catastrophe_theory):

Vladimir Arnold gave the catastrophes the ADE classification, due to a deep connection with simple Lie groups.

* A0 - a non-singular point: V = x.
* A1 - a local extrema, either a stable minimum or unstable maximum V = \pm x^2 + a x.
* A2 - the fold
* A3 - the cusp
* A4 - the swallowtail
* A5 - the butterfly
* Ak - an infinite sequence of one variable forms V=x^{k+1}+\cdots
* D4- - the elliptical umbilic
* D4+ - the hyperbolic umbilic
* D5 - the parabolic umbilic
* Dk - an infinite sequence of further umbilic forms
* E6 - the symbolic umbilic V = x3 + y4 + axy2 + bxy + cx + dy + ey2
* E7
* E8
//////


There is just one exceptional explained, but I couldn't find the other 2. I'd like to know what is the stable polynomial of the other 2 Es as well as its sketched behavior.
 
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I don't know too much about this myself, but I found http://www.math.purdue.edu/~agabriel/dynkin.pdf" which gives the singularities corresponding to E6, E7, E8 (for analytic functions C^3->C). You probably want to check the source cited there (particularly [1] by Arnold) for more info.
 
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Yes, but I've seen that on several places. Note for example the tetrahedral formula
x^4 + y^3 + z^2, is more complete on wikipedia, because it has the full stable form with 5 control parameters. I said above that this one was explained, well, sorry. It wasn't, except for expliciting the 5 parameters.

But there is nothing for the other groups. And I checked Arnold's book, in the end, and it is just explained in a very sketchy way the icosahedron/dodecahedron group. I'd like something more complete.
 
The codimension 6 singularity

x^3+xy^3+z^2

has a universal unfolding ("stable form")

x^3+xy^3+z^2+ax+bx^2+cy+dy^2+exy+fx^2y.

The codimension 7 singularity

x^3+y^5+z^2

has a universal unfolding

x^3+y^5+z^2+ax+by+cy^2+dy^3+exy+fxy^2+gxy^3.

Also note that [1] in the link I gave is not Arnold's book but an article in Functional Analysis and Applications.
 
Yes, but I can't get that article.
 
This is also contained in http://www.mat.univie.ac.at/~michor/catastrophes.pdf" (written by one of my profs in the year I was born). Check out p. 39 and 46.
 
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Hmm, Thank you! :biggrin:
 
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