Earth Travel Speed: 800 km/s in Universe?

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In summary: The reason you've never noticed this is because c2 is a very large number, so at any of the speeds that we've ever experienced, the difference... will be tiny.
  • #1
cryptist
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If Earth is moving with the speed of 800 km/s in universe, then do we travel at 1/375 of the speed of light according to a hypothetical static point in universe?
 
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  • #2
You posted this in "Special and General Relativity" so surely you know that speed can only be given relative to some specific point. So I have no idea where you got the figure "800 km/s in universe". You say "according to" (relative to) some "hypothetical static point" but since speed is relative there is NO independently "static" point.
 
  • #3
cryptist said:
If Earth is moving with the speed of 800 km/s in universe, then do we travel at 1/375 of the speed of light according to a hypothetical static point in universe?

Accepting that you might have just worded this question badly.

So the speed of an object is dependant on the reference frame i.e. Imagine that I live on the equator, me and my dad are both sitting in the living room, in this reference frame his velocity is 0. At the equator, the circumference of the Earth is 40,070 kilometers, and the day is 24 hours long (approximately) so the speed is 1670 kilometers/hour ( 1070 miles/hr), hence my dad is moving at 1670km/h, but the orbital speed of the Earth averages about 29.8 km/s (107,000 km/h), so is he not moving at 29.8 km/s. The truth is that there are reference frames in which my dad is moving 0km/s, there are reference frames in which he is moving at 30km/s and hypothetically there are reference frame in which he is moving at the speed of light.

If by hypothetical static point in the universe you mean. If the Earth is moving with velocity x,are we not also moving at velocity x, then yes we are. But if you walk towards the front of a flying plane you don't say I'm walking at 570 (+ 3)mph you don't look like your walking at 573 mph to someone on the plane. Someone on the floor however will see the plane and assuming they can see you, it will look like you are traveling at the 573mph (assuming the plane is traveling at 570 mph and you walk at approximately 3mph.)

Does this make sense... does it go anyway to answering your question?
 
  • #4
BenG549 said:
... and hypothetically there are reference frame in which he is moving at the speed of light.
No, hypothetically there are reference frames in which he is moving as close to the speed of light as you want, but not at the speed of light. As Einstein said, "the velocity of light in our theory plays the part, physically, of an infinitely great velocity" which means you can never reach it.
 
  • #5
ghwellsjr said:
No, hypothetically there are reference frames in which he is moving as close to the speed of light as you want, but not at the speed of light. As Einstein said, "the velocity of light in our theory plays the part, physically, of an infinitely great velocity" which means you can never reach it.

Yet motion is relative and space is expanding.
 
  • #6
ghwellsjr said:
No, hypothetically there are reference frames in which he is moving as close to the speed of light as you want, but not at the speed of light. As Einstein said, "the velocity of light in our theory plays the part, physically, of an infinitely great velocity" which means you can never reach it.

Sorry, not a physicist; I have a conceptual knowledge of relativity and the ideas and limitations of traveling close to/at the speed of light but I was assuming that, for example if I were in a ship traveling in one direction at 0.5c, someone traveling in the opposite direction at 0.5 would appear to be traveling at the speed of light, as within my reference frame I am stationary... I take it I've made a basic error in my assumption here? Nothing is actually traveling at light speed.
 
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  • #7
BenG549 said:
I was assuming that, for example if I were in a ship traveling in one direction at 0.5c, someone traveling in the opposite direction at 0.5 would appear to be traveling at the speed of light, as within my reference frame I am stationary... I take it I've made a basic error in my assumption here? Nothing is actually traveling at light speed.

Nope, speeds don't add that way. In the situation you describe, where u is the speed of the left moving ship (as observed by an observer in the middle) and v is the speed of the right-moving ship (also as observed by an observer in the middle) the two ships will see each other approaching at a speed that is NOT u+v; it will be [tex]\frac{u+v}{1+\frac{uv}{c^2}}[/tex]

The reason you've never noticed this is because c2 is a very large number, so at any of the speeds that we've ever experienced, the difference between the two formulas is not noticeable. When you're talking about things moving at an appreciable fraction of the speed of light, it starts to matter.
 
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  • #8
Nugatory said:
Nope, speeds don't add that way. In the situation you describe, where u is the speed of the left moving ship (as observed by an observer in the middle) and v is the speed of the right-moving ship (also as observed by an observer in the middle) the two ships will see each other approaching at a speed that is NOT u+v; it will be [tex]\frac{u+v}{1+\frac{uv}{c^2}}[/tex]

The reason you've never noticed this is because c2 is a very large number, so at any of the speeds that we've ever experienced, the difference between the two formulas is not noticeable. When you're talking about things moving at an appreciable fraction of the speed of light, it starts to matter.
Ahhh, right. Nice one, good knowledge I'll remember that! So in fact the observed speed would be: v = c/(1+0.25)... i.e. 0.8c. Cool.

I have to admit the idea of being able to observe something appearing to travel faster than light did give me pause for thought lol.
 
  • #9
My question is not badly worded actually. I guess we are not talking about the same thing.

Earth is moving with a velocity, solar system is moving with a velocity, milky way is moving with a velocity. I couldn't find where I got this number but, somewhere it says Earth is in total moving with a velocity 800 km/s. (If this number is wrong, please feel free to write the right one..)

Since we are on earth, we are also moving with that velocity. So if that number is right, we are actually traveling at 1/375 of the speed of light. Well, I know of course, its all relative, and that's why I called it as hypothetical static point. If it was real, I would not write hypothetical. Imagine yourself outside of our space-time. Then, you are a static point. I'm talking about that point..
 
  • #10
somewhere it says Earth is in total moving with a velocity 800 km/s.

That speed was relative to something - your source may not have said what it was (in which case they were either being very sloppy or speaking in a context in which it should have been obvious) but it was relative to something. You might have some fun with this page but please do remember that all of the speeds they mention there are relative to something.

cryptist said:
If it was real, I would not write hypothetical. Imagine yourself outside of our space-time. Then, you are a static point. I'm talking about that point..

Any conclusion we come to as a result of thinking about this hypothetical point is itself hypothetical. It's sort of as if you're asking "If hypothetically a pig had wings, I know pigs don't have wings and can't fly, but suppose they did and could, would a pig be able to fly faster than a bumblebee?".
 
  • #11
If Earth is moving with the speed of 800 km/s in universe, then do we travel at 1/375 of the speed of light according to a hypothetical static point in universe?

We also move on the surface of the Earth relative to the center of the earth...v =wr, and we have another speed relative to, say, the center of our solar system, another relative to the center of our galaxy, and we are moving 'faster than the speed of light' relative to the observers just past the Hubble radius from us...v = HD...
 
  • #12
Actually it says "1 second after, Earth will be 800km far away from this point" So I conclude that Earth is moving with 800km/s, of course as you all said, relative to some reference point.
 
  • #13
Actually it says "1 second after, Earth will be 800km far away from this point" So I conclude that Earth is moving with 800km/s, of course as you all said, relative to some reference point.

Let me simplify things here because getting too fancy about this velocity versus that radius, etc. is confounding the issue. The fact is that I can say that the Earth or a clown or any other object I can imagine travels at any speed I want simply by designating a hypothetical "static" point in space that my object moves relative to. Don't bother trying to find the reference to the exact velocity that you heard the Earth moves through the universe, just make one up.

If Earth is moving with the speed of 800 km/s in universe, then do we travel at 1/375 of the speed of light according to a hypothetical static point in universe?

Yes. You got it! Next time give a tougher one we can actually calculate :)
 
  • #14
cryptist said:
Actually it says "1 second after, Earth will be 800km far away from this point" So I conclude that Earth is moving with 800km/s, of course as you all said, relative to some reference point.

I suspect you got this number from velocity w.r.t. the CMBR (Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation).

Our local group of galaxies is moving at 600 km/s w.r.t CMBR, so that is the approximate velocity of the Milky Way too. Very 'back of the envelope' calculation - add another 220 km/s as the Sun's velocity around the Milky Way center, and you get something roughly around 800 km/s.
 
  • #15
I suspect you got this number from velocity w.r.t. the CMBR (Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation).

Our local group of galaxies is moving at 600 km/s w.r.t CMBR, so that is the approximate velocity of the Milky Way too. Very 'back of the envelope' calculation - add another 220 km/s as the Sun's velocity around the Milky Way center, and you get something roughly around 800 km/s.

Interesting, can you provide a link for these figures? Especially the CMBR? Thanks.
 
  • #16
wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background_radiation#CMBR_dipole_anisotropy

CMBR dipole anisotropy
From the CMB data it is seen that our local group of galaxies (the galactic cluster that includes the Solar System's Milky Way Galaxy) appears to be moving at 627±22 km/s relative to the reference frame of the CMB (also called the CMB rest frame, or the frame of reference in which there is no motion through the CMB) in the direction of galactic longitude l = 276±3°, b = 30±3°.[60]

source [60] ^ Kogut, A.; et al. (1993). "Dipole Anisotropy in the COBE Differential Microwave Radiometers First-Year Sky Maps". Astrophysical Journal 419: 1–6. arXiv:astro-ph/9312056. Bibcode 1993ApJ...419...1K. doi:10.1086/173453.
 
  • #17
Thanks Naty
 
  • #18

Related to Earth Travel Speed: 800 km/s in Universe?

1. How is the Earth able to travel at a speed of 800 km/s in the universe?

The Earth's speed in the universe is due to its orbit around the sun. The Earth orbits the sun at a speed of approximately 107,000 kilometers per hour, or 30 kilometers per second. This speed, combined with the Earth's rotation, adds up to a total velocity of 800 km/s.

2. How does the Earth's speed in the universe compare to other planets?

The Earth's speed in the universe is relatively fast compared to other planets in our solar system. For example, Mercury, the closest planet to the sun, has an orbital speed of around 170,000 kilometers per hour, while Neptune, the farthest planet, has an orbital speed of about 19,500 kilometers per hour.

3. Does the Earth's speed in the universe ever change?

Yes, the Earth's speed in the universe is not constant. It varies based on its position in its orbit around the sun. When the Earth is closest to the sun, it travels faster, and when it is farthest from the sun, it travels slower. This is due to the gravitational pull of the sun on the Earth.

4. What are the effects of the Earth's speed in the universe on our daily lives?

The Earth's speed in the universe has a significant impact on our daily lives. It is responsible for the changing of seasons, the length of our days, and the strength of our tides. It also affects the Earth's climate and is an essential factor in determining the habitability of our planet.

5. Can the Earth's speed in the universe change over time?

Yes, the Earth's speed in the universe can change over time. The Earth's orbit is not a perfect circle, and therefore, its distance from the sun and its speed can vary. Additionally, other factors such as gravitational interactions with other planets can also affect the Earth's speed in the universe.

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