Ecological Pyramids: Producers Outnumber Consumers?

[gracy]

According to ecological pyramid of numbers there are far more producers than consumers.How?I mean nowadays human population has increased so much and deforestation is also taking place in spite of all these how producers are far ahead from consumers in terms of numbers?Have i interpreted ecological pyramid correctly?Is it correct that there are far more producers than consumers?

 

[Bystander]

in terms of numbers?

Numbers? Or, mass?

 

[gracy]

Numbers? Or, mass?

actually,both.

 

[Bystander]

Compare numbers of blue whales to numbers of whatever little critters they consume, and then compare masses (total and individual) of blue whales to masses (total and individual) of critters.

Compare numbers and masses of termites to numbers and masses of cellulose producing plants.

Compare "consumption" in terms of mass consumed to mass of consumer per year. Can the consumers live on nothing if their total mass exceeds the mass of producers necessary to support that mass?

 

[gracy]

Numbers? Or, mass?

I must mention it is not just mass it is biomass.So in terms of biomass and numbers.

 

[gracy]

Compare numbers of blue whales to numbers of whatever little critters they consume, and then compare masses (total and individual) of blue whales to masses (total and individual) of critters.

Compare numbers and masses of termites to numbers and masses of cellulose producing plants.

Compare "consumption" in terms of mass consumed to mass of consumer per year. Can the consumers live on nothing if their total mass exceeds the mass of producers necessary to support that mass?

I am really not getting anything.Tomorrow is my test, can you please directly answer my question or make your point much clearer.I have to prepare for my test,there is no much time left.

 

[Bystander]

Consumers can't eat food that isn't being produced. Consumer mass is never going to exceed producer mass.

 

[gracy]

Consumers can't eat food that isn't being produced. Consumer mass is never going to exceed producer mass.

What's the difference between mass and biomass?

 

[Bystander]

Biomass is any living (or once living) material derived originally from photosynthesis.

 

[gracy]

Biomass is any living (or once living) material derived originally from photosynthesis.

If we talk about our mass ,is it greater or lesser than biomass?or just the same?i think mass is greater than biomass,as our mass include water which is not product of photosynthesis.right?

 

[Bystander]

The geochemical "rules of thumb" I learned measured "dry" mass, about 30 % of the mass of living organisms, or the actual organic material minus water. Different fields may look at total, organic mass plus water mass, but the ratios between producers and consumers will be very close to the same.

 

[gracy]

but the ratios between producers and consumers will be very close to the same.

ratio of what?

 

[Bystander]

Masses, whether wet or dry. Hundred kilograms of producers support ten kilograms of consumers, for example , that's a fifty year old rule of thumb, so use whatever ratio is being used in your class.

 

[gracy]

Masses, whether wet or dry. Hundred kilograms of producers support ten kilograms of consumers, for example , that's a fifty year old rule of thumb, so use whatever ratio is being used in your class.

is dry mass and biomass same thing?

 

[gracy]

Hundred kilograms of producers support ten kilograms of consumers,

Here supports mean?

 

[Bystander]

Biomass is anything of biological origin. "Dry" biomass is about 30% of wet biomass or living biomass.

 

[Bystander]

"To support," to feed, keep alive.

 

[gracy]

Biomass is anything of biological origin. "Dry" biomass is about 30% of wet biomass or living biomass.

wet biomass?I thought dry mass(or dry biomass ?)is mass excluding water .And biomass is anything we obtain from photosynthesis.As water is not obtained from photosynthesis ,i thought dry mass is just same as biomass.But what is wet biomass now?

 

[gracy]

Hundred kilograms of producers support ten kilograms of consumers,

for how long?I mean we eat on daily basis so.....

 

[Bystander]

Geochemists talk about "dry mass." I do not know whether biologists or other life scientists define biomass as being "wet" or "dry." The grass that grows in the sun is biomass. The cow that eats the grass is biomass. The people who eat the cow are biomass.You will eat between two and three times your mass per year depending upon your activity level.

 

[gracy]

The cow that eats the grass is biomass. The people who eat the cow are biomass.

Whole cow ,whole person is considered to be biomass?i thought some fraction or percentage of their masses is considered to be biomass.

 

[Bystander]

Your choice, wet or dry, not mine.

 

[gracy]

Your choice, wet or dry, not mine.

Is it really about choice ?I mean there must be some concept behind this terms.

 

[Bystander]

The definition used in the textbook or course materials is the definition you should use.

 

[gracy]

Your choice, wet or dry, not mine.

Ok let the mass be whatever dry/wet/bio .Can you please help me to get the answer of my 19th post.

 

[gracy]

The definition used in the textbook or course materials is the definition you should use.

I will be using biomass as mass without water. Although my book doesn't clarify what biomass really is !even wikipedia explanation is getting beyond my understanding.

 

[Bystander]

You will eat two to three times your mass per year. Other organisms? Some more, some less.

 

[gracy]

You will eat two to three times your mass per year. Other organisms? Some more, some less.

So 100 Kilograms of plant is required to feed a person( whose mass is 10 kg) throughout the year.Or 100 Kilograms of plant is required to make and retain 10 kilogram of consumers.
I know this post (of mine)doesn't make any sense.
Sorry just tolerate this.Actually i am totally blank in this concept.

 

[gracy]

You will eat two to three times your mass per year

Sorry .Not getting!Please help ..Tomorrow is my test and i want to understand this concept*(question of my original post)

 

[Bystander]

It depends on the metabolic rate of the specific consumer: you eat two to three times your mass per year; a shrew might eat two to three times its mass per day. If "producer" biomass is insufficient to feed you or the shrew, you starve, reducing "consumer" biomass to whatever level "producer" biomass can support.

 

[gracy]

you eat two to three times your mass per year;

say if my mass is 43 kg i will be eating 103 kg of biomass of plant per year?

 

[Bystander]

Give or take a chef's salad.

 

[gracy]

It depends on the metabolic rate of the specific consumer: you eat two to three times your mass per year; a shrew might eat two to three times its mass per day. If "producer" biomass is insufficient to feed you or the shrew, you starve, reducing "consumer" biomass to whatever level "producer" biomass can support.

O k i understood why Consumer mass is never going to exceed producer mass. But why can't biomass of both producer and consumers be equal?Why there is so much difference?

 

[gracy]

Give or take a chef's salad.

I didn't understand .Is this related with my question?

 

[Bystander]

Yes, you said that at 43 kg you'd be eating 103 kg per year, and I agreed, "Give or take a salad," or one or two meals.

 

[gracy]

Yes, you said that at 43 kg you'd be eating 103 kg per year, and I agreed, "Give or take a salad," or one or two meals.

if my mass is 43 kg i will be eating 103 kg of biomass of plant per year if i will be eating ONLY salad,otherwise very much than 103 kg.Right?please answer to my 33rd post.

 

[gracy]

This indicates that there are much producers than consumers.This imply to most of the cases(ecosystem)there are only some exceptions as in oak tree.That's what my question is .Even though population has increased so much,deforestation is on it's peak but still there are lot more producers than consumers.Right?

 

[Bystander]

In this context, yes, still more producers than consumers. Deforestation hasn't decreased number of producers, it's just changed what plants are producing. Population doesn't mean just human population, it includes other animals as well.

 

[fedaykin]

There are usually a lot less consumers, heterotrophs, than producers, autotrophs, because a portion of the energy will always be lost with each transfer. Some of it will be due to heat loss while other parts will be due the energy required to digest and process the producer.

 

[aroc91]

There can be cases in which consumer biomass is greater than producer biomass, but it's only a temporary situation. If producers are killed off, consumers will decline in population as a response because they won't have as much food to support them.