EE - Find Unknown Branch Current by Solving Simultaneous Equations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a circuit analysis problem involving simultaneous equations derived from Kirchhoff's Current Law (KCL) and Kirchhoff's Voltage Law (KVL). Participants are attempting to determine unknown branch currents in an electrical circuit.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how to proceed after obtaining 7 equations and 6 unknowns, specifically questioning how to reduce the equations to a solvable form.
  • Another participant suggests that having 3 KCL equations should suffice to determine the currents, implying that fewer equations might be needed.
  • A third participant explains the relationship between KCL and KVL equations, indicating that it is acceptable to have more equations than unknowns and suggesting a method to eliminate variables to simplify the problem.
  • One participant advises trying a simpler version of the problem to gain clarity and emphasizes the importance of showing work for better assistance.
  • Another participant points out that the KCL equations are not independent and suggests a method to reduce the system to three equations and three unknowns by selecting specific currents.
  • There is a brief interjection indicating a potential error in KVL application, but no further details are provided.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to simplify the equations or the independence of the KCL equations. Multiple competing views on how to proceed with the problem remain evident.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need to express some currents in terms of others, indicating potential dependencies and assumptions that may not be fully articulated. The discussion reflects varying levels of understanding regarding the relationships between equations.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students or practitioners in electrical engineering or circuit analysis who are grappling with similar problems involving simultaneous equations and the application of KCL and KVL.

DaveBoman
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Homework Statement
Find branch current by assigning direction arbitrarily and then assigning resistor polarity accordingly. Use KVL around loops and then KCL at nodes to get equations. Solve equations for unknown currents.
Relevant Equations
see picture
HW.jpg
2.jpg
 
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I am at a complete loss on this problem. I have gotten the loop equations and I have gotten the KCL equations. I have tried to write all of this out thoroughly. I am at a loss as to what to do here.

I have 7 equations and 6 unknowns. The unknowns are I1, I2, I3, I4, IL, and IT, correct?
How can I plug in the KCL equations into the loop equations to get 3 equations and 3 unknowns?
 
Welcome to PF. :smile:

DaveBoman said:
I have 7 equations and 6 unknowns. The unknowns are I1, I2, I3, I4, IL, and IT, correct?
How can I plug in the KCL equations into the loop equations to get 3 equations and 3 unknowns?
I have 3 KCL equations to solve for the 3 node voltages. That is all you need to determine the currents, no?
 
The KCL equations are linked to the KVL equations by the V-I relationship of each component. So, you actually can create an equation for each component (Like V1 = I1⋅R1), and equation for each node (KCL), and an equation for each loop (KVL). You will have variables for the voltage and current of each component. Of course, as you have seen, you will have way more equations than unknowns. That's OK, use the ones you like, to arrive at a solution for simultaneous linear equations. I will often start by eliminating all of the voltages (in terms of currents), or vice-versa.

You might try it first with a simpler version? In any case if you don't show us what you've done it's hard to help.
 
DaveBoman said:
I am at a complete loss on this problem. I have gotten the loop equations and I have gotten the KCL equations. I have tried to write all of this out thoroughly. I am at a loss as to what to do here.
Don't let indecision paralyze you. Sometimes you just need to try something, and you'll see a path forward.

DaveBoman said:
I have 7 equations and 6 unknowns. The unknowns are I1, I2, I3, I4, IL, and IT, correct?
How can I plug in the KCL equations into the loop equations to get 3 equations and 3 unknowns?
Note that the KCL equations aren't independent. The KVL equations and any three of the KCL equations will leave you a system of six equations and six unknowns.

If you want to get down to three equations and three unknowns, just choose three currents to keep in the loop equations. Use the KCL equations to express the other currents in terms of the chosen three.
 
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Wrong KVL
 

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