Einstein's theory of relativity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the origins and development of Einstein's theory of relativity, including the motivations behind it and the tools or methods used in its formulation. Participants explore both special and general relativity, touching on historical context and relevant experiments.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about what inspired Einstein to develop his theory of relativity, questioning the myth surrounding Newton's apple.
  • Others mention that Einstein primarily used thought experiments and theoretical reasoning rather than physical devices, emphasizing the use of "pen and paper."
  • A participant highlights the importance of the Michelson-Morley experiment as a significant influence on the development of special relativity.
  • Discussion includes references to Lorentz's and Poincaré's contributions, noting their influence on Einstein's work and the development of key concepts like time dilation and the relativity of simultaneity.
  • Some participants argue about the nature of proof in scientific theories, particularly in relation to GPS clock synchronization and muon decay, suggesting that these are not definitive proofs but rather supportive evidence.
  • There is a mention of the historical context in which various physicists contributed to the ideas leading up to relativity, with some participants stressing that many concepts were established before Einstein's time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the origins of Einstein's ideas, the validity of the Newton apple story, and the nature of scientific proof. There is no consensus on these points, and multiple competing perspectives remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some claims depend on interpretations of historical events and the contributions of various physicists, which may not be universally agreed upon. The discussion also reflects differing opinions on the role of experiments versus theoretical work in the development of scientific theories.

Anjum S Khan
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  1. A falling apple made Newton to think about gravity. What made einstein to think and develop his theory of relativity ?
  2. What devices/apparatus/equipment did he use for his theory of relativity ?
 
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I moved the thread.
The name is Einstein, not einstein. And the story about Newton is a nice myth...
Anjum S Khan said:
What made einstein to think and develop his theory of relativity ?
The problems with the existing theories, in particular Maxwell's laws of electrodynamics which don't work well together with Newtonian physics and experimental results about the speed of light.
Anjum S Khan said:
What devices/apparatus/equipment did he use for his theory of relativity ?
Einstein did not do experiments, but he knew about experimental results from others. Therefore: pen and paper.
 
mfb said:
Therefore: pen and paper.
...and, with the way theory development tends to go, probably a large waste paper bin.
 
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mfb said:
I moved the thread.
The name is Einstein, not einstein. And the story about Newton is a nice myth...
The problems with the existing theories, in particular Maxwell's laws of electrodynamics which don't work well together with Newtonian physics and experimental results about the speed of light.Einstein did not do experiments, but he knew about experimental results from others. Therefore: pen and paper.

So, what made others to think in this direction ? And what device/equipments they used for this ?
 
Anjum S Khan said:
So, what made others to think in this direction ? And what device/equipments they used for this ?
Which others, which direction?
Probably the most important experiment that lead to special relativity was the Michelson–Morley experiment.

You can find all those things in the corresponding Wikipedia articles.
 
Anjum S Khan said:
A falling apple made Newton to think about gravity. What made einstein to think and develop his theory of relativity ?

For the general theory of relativity, read about the Equivalence Principle. It illustrates the type of thought experiments that Einstein used.
 
Hy Anjum S Khan, my belated welcome to PF Forum

mfb said:
I moved the thread.
The name is Einstein, not einstein. And the story about Newton is a nice myth...
The problems with the existing theories, in particular Maxwell's laws of electrodynamics which don't work well together with Newtonian physics and experimental results about the speed of light.Einstein did not do experiments, but he knew about experimental results from others. Therefore: pen and paper.
What? It's a myth?
Anjum S Khan said:
A falling apple made Newton to think about gravity. What made einstein to think and develop his theory of relativity ?
  1. What devices/apparatus/equipment did he use for his theory of relativity ?
One stone (ein stein) didn't use any devices, mostly he used thought experiments,
But GPS clock synchronization is the proof of Einstein theory. And you can read something about muon.
Muon particle, as I read, should decay in about 2 microsecond. Yet from 16 km above the atmosphere, some of them can reach ground.
<<Mentor note: Link deleted>>
But, they're just the proof of this theory not the devices to develop this theory.
Sincerely
 
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Einstein's primary motivation came from reading Lorentz's 1904 paper, "Electromagnetic Phenomena in a System Moving with any Velocity less than that of Light", which contains the Lorentz transformation and length contraction equations, and asserted the undetectability of "ether": "It will therefore be impossible to detect the influence of the Earth's motion on any optical experiment". He also was motivated by Poincare's 1904 "Sur la dynamique de l'electron", who stressed the subtleties of synchronizing clocks by speed-of-light signals and the idea of "local time" (time seeming to be dilated), and concluded that it was "as though" the ether didn't exist. Einstein's 1905 paper "On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies" borrowed their equations, adding the concept of relativity of simultaneity, explicit time dilation, velocity addition formula, and rejection of "ether".

Lorentz and Poincare were motivated by the experiments of Michelson-Morley and Trouton-Noble; and the work of Fitzgerald, Voigt, Rayleigh and Brace, and many others, who figured out most of the basic concepts between 1882 and 1900, starting from Maxwell's equations. Unlike Einstein, none of these physicists dreamed about riding on a light beam.
 
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Stephanus said:
What? It's a myth?
He probably saw apples falling, but a large fraction of the population does that. It's not like he saw an apple falling and thought "oh, gravitational force is Mm/r2". Wikipedia discusses this in some detail.
But GPS clock synchronization is the proof of Einstein theory.
You cannot prove a theory. You can only fail to disprove it, and if you do that thousands of times with increasing precision, you realize that a theory is good.
Muon particle, as I read, should decay in about 2 microsecond. Yet from 16 km above the atmosphere, some of them can reach ground.
The 2 microseconds are an average, but more muons reach the ground than you would expect in classical mechanics.
 
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  • #11
secur said:
Einstein's primary motivation came from reading Lorentz's 1904 paper, "Electromagnetic Phenomena in a System Moving with any Velocity less than that of Light", which contains the Lorentz transformation and length contraction equations, ...
1 year for SR. 10 years for GR
 

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