Elastic collision with conservation of energy and momentum?

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves an elastic collision between two trains, where one train is initially moving and the other is at rest. The discussion centers around applying the principles of conservation of momentum and conservation of kinetic energy to determine the final velocities of both trains, given their masses and the initial velocity of the moving train.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the application of conservation of momentum and energy equations, questioning the validity of their setups and the implications of negative velocity definitions. There is an exploration of how to combine equations to solve for the unknown final velocities.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on combining the conservation equations to solve for the final velocities. There is an ongoing exploration of the implications of the chosen sign conventions for velocity and the algebraic methods needed to manipulate the equations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the assumption of an isolated system and the lack of external forces. There is a mention of the initial kinetic energy of the stationary train being zero, which influences the energy conservation equation. Concerns about algebraic manipulation and the need for simultaneous equation solving are also present.

zell_D
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Homework Statement


a moving train collides with a train that is not moving, and the trains use their springy bumpers to bounce off of each other without damage. Assume diff masses for train A and B. Identify your isolated system, solve for the final velocity of EACH train in terms of INITIAL VELOCITY of the initially moving train and the 2 masses


Homework Equations


P=mv
Conservation of momentum: Pfinal=Pinitial
Assumption of no external forces, spring as part of the system. k not addressed

The Attempt at a Solution


pi=[mA](viA) (since B is at rest)
pf=[mA](vfA)+[mB](vfB)

pi=pf
[mA](viA)=[mA](vfA)+[mB](vfB)
since A's final velocity defined as in the negative direction in my system
[mA](viA)=-[mA](vfA)+[mB]()

vfA = [[mB]vfB-[mA](viA)]/mA
vfB = [[mA]vfA+[mA](viA)]/mB

my question this is the furthest i got to. I do not know if i am right or wrong. But it seems like that's not the furtherst i can solve this problem. since the final velocity variable still are present in both
 
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zell_D said:

The Attempt at a Solution


pi=[mA](viA) (since B is at rest)
pf=[mA](vfA)+[mB](vfB)

pi=pf
[mA](viA)=[mA](vfA)+[mB](vfB)
Good.
since A's final velocity defined as in the negative direction in my system
[mA](viA)=-[mA](vfA)+[mB]()
OK, but no need for this step. It's OK to have negative values for V.

vfA = [[mB]vfB-[mA](viA)]/mA
vfB = [[mA]vfA+[mA](viA)]/mB
This won't help. What you need is a another independent equation to use in addition to conservation of momentum. Hint: What else is conserved? (See the title of this thread!)
 
energy is conserved...

so KEiA+KEiB=KEfA+KEfB?
KE initial for B = 0 so
KEiA=KEfA+KEfB

(1/2)mA[vi^2]=(1/2)mA[vfA^2]+(1/2)mB[vfB^2]

but wouldn't i end up with both final velocities again?
 
zell_D said:
energy is conserved...

so KEiA+KEiB=KEfA+KEfB?
KE initial for B = 0 so
KEiA=KEfA+KEfB

(1/2)mA[vi^2]=(1/2)mA[vfA^2]+(1/2)mB[vfB^2]
Good.

but wouldn't i end up with both final velocities again?
You must combine both equations--solve them simultaneously. (This one and the one you had before from momentum conservation.)

Just take one of the final equations from your last post and substitute into this one. Then you can solve for both unknowns.
 
are the conservation of momentum equations right? since i made the velocity negative and all

oh and do i use FOIL since there are going to be squares lol haven't done algebra in like forever -_-
 
zell_D said:
are the conservation of momentum equations right? since i made the velocity negative and all
As long as you remember how you defined the sign.

oh and do i use FOIL since there are going to be squares lol haven't done algebra in like forever -_-
Sounds like a plan to me.
 

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