Electric Discharge Patterns: Coincidence or Controlled Pathways?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the observation of electric discharge patterns in long exposure photographs, exploring whether the paths taken by the discharges are coincidental or influenced by controlled factors such as ionization and air movement. The conversation touches on theoretical and experimental aspects of electric arcs, including their behavior in different environments.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that electric discharges appear to follow similar paths, questioning whether this is a coincidence or a result of prior ionization of the air.
  • One participant suggests that the first arc ionizes the air, making it easier for subsequent arcs to follow the same path.
  • Another participant proposes that variations in air movement could influence the shapes of the arcs observed in the photographs.
  • There is a suggestion to conduct an experiment using a Tesla coil and a camera to capture the discharge patterns under different conditions, such as with and without a fan.
  • A participant describes a device known as a Jacob's Ladder, explaining how arcs travel upward due to heated air, while another challenges the feasibility of using a neon sign transformer for this purpose, suggesting that a high voltage transformer is necessary instead.
  • Concerns are raised about safety, emphasizing that arcs can be dangerous and can jump gaps, leading to potential electrocution.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a variety of viewpoints regarding the behavior of electric arcs, with no clear consensus on whether the observed patterns are coincidental or controlled. Disagreements also arise regarding the appropriate equipment for creating similar discharge effects.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve assumptions about the behavior of electric arcs and the conditions under which they are observed, which may not be fully explored or resolved within the thread.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying electric discharges, experimental physics, or anyone curious about the behavior of arcs in different environments.

algaidaman
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I have just now seen this long exposure photo on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_voltage" from an electric discharge. Is it just me or does it appear that each discharge is taking an almost exact path down the length of the arc.

I need to know if this is just a coincidence, and if not, what is causing this.
 

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I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "an almost exact path down the length of the arc"?

What you're seeing is the electrons passing through a gas, exciting atomic transitions and causing the atoms to radiate. If there's a smoothly varying potential inside the chamber, then they of course would follow similar trajectories.
 
algaidaman said:
I have just now seen this long exposure photo on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_voltage" from an electric discharge. Is it just me or does it appear that each discharge is taking an almost exact path down the length of the arc.

I need to know if this is just a coincidence, and if not, what is causing this.
The first arc ionizes molecules in its path. Subsequent arcs would tend to follow this ionized path, giving similar shapes. A slight movement of the air would explain why the shapes move.
 
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It looks to me like there must eb a pocket of air that didn't ionize, and the arc went around it. I would be interested to know in which direction (left-to-right or right-to-left) one must view these exposures in order to be seeing the arc's progress in chronological order. If right-to-left, then it looks as if the arc straightend out over time.
 
Does someone have a tesla coil and a camera (with long exposure) to try this? It would be cool to see the pictures with and without a fan on.
 
My former professor of electromagnetism had a funny and deadly device: two separating pieces of rigid metal wire going up in a kind of large V (height: about 30 cm, upper separation, about 15 or 20 cm). With a kind of tesla coil directly plugged on the mains (:bugeye:) the thing started sparking where the wires were close (down part of the V) and the arc created as such, heated the air, which moved the ionised path upward in the V until it made an almost half circle connected to the upper extremities of the V before breaking up, at which point a second arc started off down under at the V again...
One better didn't touch the metal wires !
 
algaidaman said:
Does someone have a tesla coil and a camera (with long exposure) to try this? It would be cool to see the pictures with and without a fan on.

You know you're in a community of physicsts when someone seriously asks if someone else has a tesla coil just lying around to play with.
 
vanesch said:
My former professor of electromagnetism had a funny and deadly device: two separating pieces of rigid metal wire going up in a kind of large V (height: about 30 cm, upper separation, about 15 or 20 cm). With a kind of tesla coil directly plugged on the mains (:bugeye:) the thing started sparking where the wires were close (down part of the V) and the arc created as such, heated the air, which moved the ionised path upward in the V until it made an almost half circle connected to the upper extremities of the V before breaking up, at which point a second arc started off down under at the V again...
One better didn't touch the metal wires !

It's called a Jacob's Ladder, and you can make one with a neon sign transformer. Once the arc is started across the small gap at the bottom, it will travel upwards (due to heated air) and expand. It was a favorite prop in hollywood in movies like Frankenstein with boris karloff.
 
marcusl said:
It's called a Jacob's Ladder, and you can make one with a neon sign transformer. Once the arc is started across the small gap at the bottom, it will travel upwards (due to heated air) and expand.

Not with a neon sign transformer I think.
It has too small current output to maintain stable arc traveling upwards.
Potential high voltage transformers are used for creating Jacob's Ladder effects.
 
  • #10
vanesch said:
One better didn't touch the metal wires !
Matter of fact you don't have to touch them to be electrocuted.
Arcs can jump across sufficiently small gap between a body and a hot wire if the voltage is high enough.
 

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