Electrical Engineers: Need help with thermostat output options.

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around controlling a heating plug element using a thermostat controller, specifically focusing on output options and the necessary components for achieving temperature control up to 1000°F. Participants explore the functionality of different output types, power supply requirements, and the overall design of the control system.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to control a heating plug element to maintain a set temperature, asking for the simplest output option among DC Pulse, Relay, or 4-20mA.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need for a thermocouple or resistive thermal device to measure temperature and questions the specifics of the desired temperature control, such as ramping and maintenance duration.
  • A participant clarifies that the temperature should ramp up to a set point and remain there until manually shut off, with an optional automatic shutoff feature.
  • Questions arise regarding the necessity of a separate power supply for the controller and the specifics of wiring it directly to 110Vac.
  • Clarification is sought on whether the relay output includes a built-in SPDT relay and the differences between relay output and DC pulse output for the application.
  • One participant confirms that no additional power supply is needed and explains the wiring for the controller, while also discussing the use of relay outputs for heating elements.
  • Another participant suggests that while a PID controller might be overkill for this application, it could be useful for future projects.
  • There is a mention of using DC pulses as an input to a Solid State Relay to control AC to the heater, depending on the heater's wattage and current rating.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and experience with electrical components, leading to some agreement on the need for relay outputs for heating elements, but uncertainty remains regarding the best approach for the specific application and the necessity of additional components.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully resolved the specifics of the output options and their implications for the heating system design. There are also unresolved questions about the power supply and wiring requirements.

pedalspikes
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
I'm working on a project were I will be using Heating Plug Element-
http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=CSS_CSH&Nav=head01

I want to be able to control temperatures up to 1000 F using something likes this:
http://www.omega.com/Manuals/manualpdf/M4636.pdf

I would like to be able to control the temperature of the plug heaters so that I am able to set a maximum temperature, which is held for a period of time before shutoff. Nothing overly elaborate. There will be no other electrical components, just the plug heater and the thermostat controller.
I'm not clear on how controllers of this type work. The output for the controllers is either DC Pulse, Relay, or 4-20mA (is up to the buyer). For my described application which output would be the simplest? What additional hardware would I need for what is suggested?
Thanks!
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
The idea of a controller is to maintain its set-point temperature by minimizing the error signal (difference between set-point and measured temp), so you're going to have to have either a thermocouple (TC) or resistive thermal device (RTD) to get the measured temp.

You need to give more detail about what you are wanting to do. By "control temperatures up to 1000 F", do you mean just ramp the temp up to set-point value? And if so, how long do you want to maintain this temp? Sounds like you may need other electronics.

As far as to which type of output to use depends on what exactly you want to do.
 
I would like the temperature to ramp up until it reaches a desired set temperature, where it would remain until manually shut off. An automatic shutoff after x minutes would be nice, but it is not a necessity.

My confusion stems from the description of the temperature control unit.
-Do I need a separate power supply, or can I wire the controller directly to 110Vac?
-The output options allow you to choose a 5-20mA relay option, is SPDT relay built in, or is that something that must be independently connected?
-What is the difference between functionality of a relay output and DC pulse out put? Which is better for my described application?

Sorry for my vague-ness, I'm fairly new to designing parts with electrical components.
 
-No, you don't need an additional power supply. You can wire it directly to a 100vac to 240vac source with the line on terminal 11 and the neutral on terminal 12 (see page 6 of the Omega bulletin).

-The Short Cartridge Heaters can be bought for either 120vac or 240vac operation so you would need to supply that through a relay output as opposed to a dc pulse which would not drive the heater.

For industrial process control instruments, analog 4–20 mA and 10–50 mA current loops are commonly used for analog signaling, with 4 mA representing the lowest end of the range and 20 mA the highest. The key advantages of the current loop are that the accuracy of the signal is not affected by voltage drop in the interconnecting wiring, and that the loop can supply operating power to the device.
(see Current Loop)

edit: Check out how your proportional–integral–derivative controller (PID controller) works. It might be an overkill here. Just sayin'
 
Last edited:
Thanks!
The PID controller is most definitely overkill for what I plan on using it for, but figured I might use it for different applications in the future.

I had a feeling that the heating elements would have to be connected through a relay, rather than the DC pulse.
 
pedalspikes said:
I had a feeling that the heating elements would have to be connected through a relay, rather than the DC pulse.

You could use dc pulses as a input to a Solid State Relay that switches the ac to the heater however. Depending on the wattage of the heater you chose determines at what current rating you would need for one of these:

458px-Solid-state-relays.jpg
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
37
Views
7K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
6K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
7K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
6K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
5K