Elliptic Integral Homework: Expanding for Large k^2

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the expansion of a complete elliptic integral of the second kind, specifically E(k), for large values of k². The original poster seeks to approximate the integral by truncating at the first order term and is exploring the implications of the sign of k² in relation to the standard form of E(k).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster questions whether the first order truncation of the expansion is a valid approximation for large k² and considers if an alternative expansion might be more appropriate. They also inquire about adjusting the sign in the odd terms of the expansion due to the sign change of k.
  • Some participants suggest rewriting the integral and expanding in terms of 1/k, noting the sign ambiguity introduced by the square root. They also discuss the conditions under which the approximation holds true, particularly regarding the behavior of sin(x).
  • Further, there is a consideration of changing the lower bound of the integral to improve the approximation, with one participant proposing to check convergence after performing the integrals.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights and alternative approaches to the problem. Some guidance has been offered regarding the rewriting of the integral and the implications of the sign ambiguity. There is an acknowledgment of the limitations of the original expansion for large k, and participants are exploring various interpretations and adjustments to the problem setup.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the contributions to the integral from certain bounds may be small, which raises questions about the validity of the approximation under those conditions. The original poster also references feedback from a professor regarding the use of a specific lower bound in the integral.

G01
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Homework Statement



Sub problem from a much larger HW problem:

From previous steps we arrive at a complete elliptic integral of the second kind:

[tex]E(k)=\int_0^{\pi/2} dx \sqrt{1+k^2\sin^2x}[/tex]

In the next part of the problem, I need to expand this integral and approximate it by truncating at the first order term. (k is large)

Homework Equations



[tex]E(k) = \frac{\pi}{2} \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \left[\frac{(2n)!}{2^{2 n} (n!)^2}\right]^2 \frac{k^{2n}}{1-2 n}[/tex]

The Attempt at a Solution



I believe I should use the expansion quoted above.

Here is my question. Based of the previous steps I know that k^2 has to be large. Also, the sign of k^2 is opposite of what is is in the standard form of E(k).

So, 1. Does this expansion truncated at first order approximate the integral well if k^2 is large?

I think not. Is there another expansion, one for large k^2, that I can potentially use?

2. Can I just change the sign in the odd terms of the expansion to account for the sign change of k?

I think this should work.
 
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The expansion above is not valid for large [tex]k[/tex]. Simply rewrite

[tex] E(k)=\int_0^{\pi/2} dx \sqrt{1+k^2\sin^2x} = \pm \int_0^{\pi/2} dx k \sin x\sqrt{1+\frac{1}{k^2\sin^2x}}[/tex]

and expand this in [tex]1/k[/tex] yourself. Note that taking the square root introduces a sign ambiguity that should be chosen to give the correct sign to [tex]E(k)[/tex].
 
fzero said:
The expansion above is not valid for large [tex]k[/tex]. Simply rewrite

[tex] E(k)=\int_0^{\pi/2} dx \sqrt{1+k^2\sin^2x} = \pm \int_0^{\pi/2} dx k \sin x\sqrt{1+\frac{1}{k^2\sin^2x}}[/tex]

and expand this in [tex]1/k[/tex] yourself. Note that taking the square root introduces a sign ambiguity that should be chosen to give the correct sign to [tex]E(k)[/tex].

Hmm. This makes sense, however, it is only a good approximation when sin(x) is larger than 1/m.

However, the contributions to the integral in [0,1/m] are small, so can I fix the approximation by changing the lower bound on the integral to 1/m?
 
Last edited:
G01 said:
Hmm. This makes sense, however, it is only a good approximation when sin(x) is larger than 1/m.

However, the contributions to the integral in [0,1/m] are small, so can I fix the approximation by changing the lower bound on the integral to 1/m?

I'd write the expansion as a power series, do the integrals and then check convergence.
 
Yeah you were right. The higher order terms don't necessarily converge with a lower bound of 1/m.

Checked with my prof. Looks like if you use 1/m as the lower bound and expand to first order, you get the correct result up to a multiplicative constant on the resulting ln(m) term.

I think can finish the rest of the problem now. Thanks fzero!
 

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