Empirical verification of conditions for Hawking singularity theorem when Λ≠0?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the empirical verification of conditions for the Hawking singularity theorem in the context of a non-zero cosmological constant (Λ≠0). Participants explore the implications of the Strong Energy Condition (SEC) and its relationship with the cosmological constant, particularly in relation to singularities in the universe. The scope includes theoretical considerations and mathematical reasoning related to general relativity and cosmology.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference the classic paper by Hawking and Ellis, which applies the singularity theorem under the assumption of Λ=0, and inquire about its extension to cases where Λ≠0.
  • There is a question regarding whether the SEC is violated when Λ is treated as a cosmological constant rather than dark energy.
  • One participant asserts that the SEC is indeed violated for Λ>0, providing a calculation that shows the relationship between energy density and pressure under the Einstein field equations.
  • Another participant notes that while the SEC is violated in the present universe, it may have held in the early universe due to contributions from radiation.
  • There is a discussion about treating Λ as part of the stress-energy tensor versus as a geometric term in Einstein's equations, with differing opinions on the implications for the SEC.
  • Some participants argue that the SEC defined solely using the stress-energy tensor may not necessarily be violated by a cosmological constant, while others emphasize the need for a joint condition involving both the SEC and the cosmological constant.
  • One participant mentions that the 1970 Hawking-Penrose theorem does not include the SEC as a hypothesis, suggesting that the geometrical conditions may still lead to singularities even if the SEC is satisfied.
  • There is a reference to a singularity theorem proposed for scenarios involving inflation before the radiation-dominated phase, indicating ongoing exploration of these concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the cosmological constant for the SEC and its relationship to the Hawking singularity theorem. There is no consensus on whether the SEC is universally violated in the presence of a cosmological constant, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the treatment of Λ in the context of singularity theorems.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the SEC's validity may depend on specific conditions, such as the presence of radiation in the early universe or the treatment of Λ in the equations. The discussion highlights the complexity of these relationships and the need for careful consideration of definitions and assumptions.

bcrowell
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As far as I know, the classic paper applying the Hawking singularity theorem to our universe is this one: Hawking and Ellis, "The Cosmic Black-Body Radiation and the Existence of Singularities in Our Universe," Astrophysical Journal, vol. 152, p. 25, 1968, http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1968ApJ...152...25H The version of the theorem they use is one that says that if the SEC holds, there are no CTCs, and a trapped surface exists, then an incomplete geodesic exists.
To summarize, the observed isotropy of the black-body radiation indicates that the Universe is nearly homogeneous and isotropic back to at least the last time the radiation was scattered. If this occurred at a redshift greater than 100, we can conclude that the energy density of the black-body radiation alone would be sufficient to make all the past-directed timelike geodesics from p start converging again.
The paper assumes Λ=0. For Λ≠0, the SEC is violated. Does anyone know of a paper that connects the dots between observation and a singularity theorem for Λ≠0 in the same way that this paper did for Λ=0? E.g., this review article http://www.livingreviews.org/lrr-1998-11 doesn't seem to mention the issue.
 
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Is the SEC violated even if Λ is a cosmological constant, and not dark energy?
 
atyy said:
Is the SEC violated even if Λ is a cosmological constant, and not dark energy?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it is. For example, see p. 2 of http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0205066 Actually, checking that this is the case seems like a good exercise. I'll try it and if I can get it to work out, I'll post my calculation.
 
OK, it turns out to be a pretty trivial calculation. In the One True Signature (+---), the Einstein field equations are G_{ab}=8\pi T_{ab}+\Lambda g_{ab}. That means that a cosmological constant is equivalent to \rho=(1/8\pi)\Lambda and P=-(1/8\pi)\Lambda. This gives \rho+3P=(1/8\pi)(-2\Lambda), which violates the SEC for \Lambda>0, since part of the SEC is \rho+3P \ge 0.
 
Ah, I see. In the present-day universe, the SEC is violated. But in the early universe, radiation made contributions to both ρ and P that diverged to infinity, so the SEC still held. A correct statement would be that the SEC is violated if Λ>0 in a vacuum.
 
bcrowell said:
OK, it turns out to be a pretty trivial calculation. In the One True Signature (+---), the Einstein field equations are G_{ab}=8\pi T_{ab}+\Lambda g_{ab}. That means that a cosmological constant is equivalent to \rho=(1/8\pi)\Lambda and P=-(1/8\pi)\Lambda. This gives \rho+3P=(1/8\pi)(-2\Lambda), which violates the SEC for \Lambda>0, since part of the SEC is \rho+3P \ge 0.

Doesn't that treat \Lambda g_{ab} as part of T?

What if you treat \Lambda as geometry, and write G_{ab}-\Lambda g_{ab}=8\pi T_{ab}?
 
atyy said:
Doesn't that treat \Lambda g_{ab} as part of T?
Right. I'm pretty sure that's what you've got to do, though. I think the physical justification is that if you had a form of matter that acted like a cosmological constant, you would have to include it in T, but it would represent all the same physics as if you put it in the cosmological constant term. Looking around at various references online, they do all state energy conditions in terms of T alone, but I think they simply date back far enough that there was no real interest in including a Λ. I could be wrong about this, but I can't see what else you could do that would be reconcilable with the physical jusitification I gave above, or with the statements in papers like Visser's that Λ violates the SEC.

atyy said:
What if you treat \Lambda as geometry, and write G_{ab}-\Lambda g_{ab}=8\pi T_{ab}[Λ/itex]?
<br /> <br /> Algebraic manipulations don&#039;t affect the validity or interpretation of an equation, and geometry isn&#039;t something that you can just redefine.
 
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bcrowell said:
Algebraic manipulations don't affect the validity or interpretation of an equation, and geometry isn't something that you can just redefine.

How about like in http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Dark_energy, where the SEC is said to be violated in the 3rd scenario (outside the standard model), but no mention of it seems to be made in the 2nd scenario (gravitational origin)?
 
bcrowell said:
Ah, I see. In the present-day universe, the SEC is violated. But in the early universe, radiation made contributions to both ρ and P that diverged to infinity, so the SEC still held. A correct statement would be that the SEC is violated if Λ>0 in a vacuum.

Anyway, I see you got your answer directly from the latter pages of the paper itself.

So I think on technicalities, the SEC defined only using T is not necessarily violated by a cosmological constant. However, the theorem requires a joint condition on the SEC and the cosmological constant, which can be satisfied by 0 cc and SEC. In the case of a positive cc, they argue that in reality, T is such that a small positive cc would still lie within the joint condition on T and the cc.

I wonder if the known cc lies within what they assumed as bounds on reality at that time? Looks like yes, they assume no greater than 5E-29 g/cm3 and http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Dark_energy says it's 7E-30 g/cm3.
 
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  • #10
atyy said:
So I think on technicalities, the SEC defined only using T is not necessarily violated by a cosmological constant.

But the 1970 Hawking-Penrose theorem does not have the Strong Energy Condition as one of its hypotheses, its has R_{a b} U^a U^b \geq 0 for all timelike and lightlike U. When used with the Raychaudhuri's equation, this geometrical condition produces focusing of geodesics.
atyy said:
Doesn't that treat \Lambda g_{ab} as part of T?

What if you treat \Lambda as geometry, and write G_{ab}-\Lambda g_{ab}=8\pi T_{ab}?

In this case,
R_{ab} = 8 \pi \left(T_{ab} -\frac{1}{2} g_{ab} - \frac{\Lambda}{8 \pi} g_{ab} \right).
The Strong Energy Condition is
\left(T_{ab} -\frac{1}{2} g_{ab} \right) U^a U^b \geq 0
for all timelike U.

Consequently, if the cosmological constant (on the geometrical left side of Einstein's equation) "dominates" the Ricci tensor, then the hypotheses of the 1970 Hawking-Penrose singularity theorem are violated even if the strong energy condition is satisfied. As Ben mentioned, during the radiation dominated phase of the early universe, the (normal) stress-energy part of the Ricci tensor dominates, so this hypothesis of the theorem is met.

Only if there is no cosmological constant, or if it is included in the stress-energy tensor as dark energy, is this geometrical hypothesis equivalent to the Strong Energy Condition.

If there was inflation before the radiation-dominated phase, then the above geometrical hypothesis is violated, but there has been a singularity theorem put forward for this case,

http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0110012.
 

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