Energy change and work involved in lifting a ball

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the work-energy theorem in the context of lifting a ball, examining the relationship between work done, kinetic energy, and potential energy. Participants explore the implications of these concepts when a ball is moved upward against gravitational force.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that when a ball is lifted, the net work done is zero due to no change in kinetic energy, leading to confusion about the upward movement of the ball.
  • Another participant suggests that potential energy must be included in the work-energy considerations, proposing the equation W = ΔEkinetic - ΔEpotential.
  • Contrarily, a different participant argues against the inclusion of potential energy, stating that net work is solely the change in kinetic energy and that potential energy terms are not involved.
  • A subsequent reply reiterates the position that net work is the change in kinetic energy, emphasizing that total work done relates to total energy, providing a specific example of work done on a 1kg ball raised 1 meter.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the role of potential energy in the work-energy theorem, with some advocating for its inclusion while others maintain that only kinetic energy changes are relevant to net work.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights differing interpretations of the work-energy theorem and the definitions of work and energy, with unresolved assumptions about the treatment of potential energy in the context of lifting objects.

darkp0tat0
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I was thinking about the work-energy theorem today and how it states that:

Wnet = ΔEkinetic

If this is true, then when a ball is moved upward a distance of d, the net work done is equal to zero because there is no change in kinetic energy.

Because: Work = Force x Displacement

for every infinitely small distance, dr, that the ball moves in the upward direction, the work done by the upward force is equal to F * dr and the work done by gravitational force is equal to -mg * dr.

However, according to the previous statement, net work done when the ball moves a distance of dr is zero, which means that F*dr = mg * dr and F = mg

Because Fnet = F - mg, there is no net force. If there is no net force, why does the ball move up?

I feel like I am missing a very crucial part of logic, but I can't seem to figure it out. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
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For total energy, you need to include a potential term.

W = ΔEkinetic - ΔEpotential
 
rcgldr said:
For total energy, you need to include a potential term.

W = ΔEkinetic - ΔEpotential

This is wrong. The net work will always be the change in kinetic energy. No potential energy
terms are involved.
 
Acut said:
This is wrong. The net work will always be the change in kinetic energy. No potential energy terms are involved.
Note I dropped "net" from the work term in the equation I posted. I was relating total work done to total energy. If a 1kg ball is raised 1 meter, than 9.8 Newton meters of total work is done. If I then release the ball, it's kinetic energy at the moment it falls back to it's original position will be 9.8 Newton meters.
 

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