Entropy of a mole of an ideal gas

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the entropy of one mole of an ideal gas, specifically exploring the expression for change in entropy, \(\Delta S\), derived from thermodynamic principles. Participants are examining the relationship between internal energy, heat, and work in the context of an ideal gas.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the derivation of the expression for entropy, questioning how to deduce that \(dU = C_v dT\) for an ideal gas. There are inquiries about the assumptions made regarding the mole of gas and the bounds of the integrals involved in calculating entropy.

Discussion Status

Some participants have offered insights into the definitions and relationships between variables, while others are still seeking clarity on specific aspects of the derivation and the integral bounds. The conversation reflects a mix of understanding and uncertainty, with no explicit consensus reached.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of thermodynamic definitions and the implications of integrating over different variables, indicating potential constraints in their understanding of the problem setup.

fluidistic
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Homework Statement

Show that the entropy of one mole of an ideal gas is given by [tex]\Delta S = \int \frac{C_v dT+PdV}{T}[/tex].
2. The attempt at a solution
[tex]\Delta S= \frac{dQ}{T}[/tex]. From the 1st of Thermodynamics, [tex]\Delta U= \Delta Q - \Delta W[/tex], where [tex]W[/tex] is the work done by the gas. Hence [tex]\Delta Q = \Delta U + \Delta W \Rightarrow dQ=dU+dW=C_vdT+PdV[/tex]. So [tex]\Delta S= \int \frac{C_vdT+PdV}{T}[/tex].[tex]\square[/tex].
But this is cheat. By this I mean that I didn't know that [tex]dU=C_vdT[/tex]. I deduced it because I had to fall over the result. How can I deduce [tex]dU=C_vdT[/tex], for an ideal gas?
Where did I supposed the 1 mol of the ideal gas?
Last question, what are the bounds of the integral of the change of entropy?
Because [tex]\Delta S = \int \frac{C_v dT+PdV}{T}=\int \frac{C_vdT}{T}+ \int \frac{PdV}{T}[/tex] and I'm sure the bounds of the 2 integrals are different. For instance I think that the bounds of [tex]\int \frac{PdV}{T}[/tex] are [tex]\int_{V_1}^{V_2} \frac{PdV}{T}[/tex]. And I guess that the bounds of [tex]\int \frac{C_vdT}{T}[/tex] are [tex]\int_{T_1}^{T_2} \frac{C_vdT}{T}[/tex] but I'm not sure.
 
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fluidistic said:
How can I deduce [tex]dU=C_vdT[/tex], for an ideal gas?

By definition,

[tex]C_X=T\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial T}\right)_X[/tex]

where [itex]X[/itex] is some constraint. This is easily combined with [itex]dU=T\,dS-P\,dV[/itex].

fluidistic said:
Where did I supposed the 1 mol of the ideal gas?

If you define [itex]S[/itex] and [itex]V[/itex] as the molar entropy and molar volume, respectively, then everything works out. You'll just multiply the answer by 1 mole.

fluidistic said:
Last question, what are the bounds of the integral of the change of entropy?

I don't believe it's possible to write a definite integral that contains both [itex]dT[/itex] and [itex]dV[/itex]. Combining them is a useful shorthand that works for the indefinite integral only.
 
Ok, thank you very much!
 
For a constant volume process, W = 0. From the first law, if W = 0, dQ = dU.

By definition dQ = nCvdT for a constant volume process. So dU = nCvdT.

AM
 
Andrew Mason said:
For a constant volume process, W = 0. From the first law, if W = 0, dQ = dU.

By definition dQ = nCvdT for a constant volume process. So dU = nCvdT.

AM

Thanks. I think I understand well now.
 

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