Equivalence of msd and velocity autocorrelation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between mean squared displacement (msd) and velocity autocorrelation functions in the context of particle dynamics. Participants explore mathematical derivations and conceptual connections, with a focus on theoretical aspects and potential applications in simulations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks a mathematical derivation connecting msd and velocity autocorrelation functions, noting their use in calculating the diffusion constant.
  • Another participant questions the meaning of averaging "over time origins" and contrasts it with their method of averaging over particle trajectories.
  • A participant attempts to clarify the derivation process involving Fourier-transformed position and expresses uncertainty about the equivalence of their calculations with those presented in a referenced sheet.
  • Some participants highlight that the velocity autocorrelation function is distinct from the average of squared velocities, particularly in the context of a Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution.
  • There is a request for a more straightforward connection between msd and velocity autocorrelation without reliance on advanced concepts like Fourier transforms or specific distributions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mathematical connections and derivations between msd and velocity autocorrelation functions. There is no consensus on the best approach or understanding of the concepts involved.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on specific definitions and the unresolved nature of the mathematical steps involved in the derivations discussed.

SchroedingersLion
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Greetings,

I am searching for an explanation that connects the mean squared displacement in an ensemble of particles to the velocity autocorrelation functions. I know that they are connected since both of them can be used to calculate the diffusion constant. But I do not find a mathematical derivation. Does anyone have some link or material here?
SL
 
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I have found the following sheet:

pdmRbKa.png


(source: https://nanohub.org/resources/7581/download/Martini_L9_DynamicProperties.pdf )

First question: What does it mean to average "over time origins"?
In my simulation, I calculate the msd via averaging over particle trajectories, not different time origins.

Second question: What exactly happens in the last step? I can't replicate it, if I rewrite t' in terms of TAU and t''.
From the second line, I write ## t'=t'' - \tau ##.
I get ##\int_0^t \, dt'' (- \int_{t''}^{t''-t} \, d\tau <v(t''-\tau)v(t'')>) = \int_0^t \, dt'' \int_{t''-t}^{t''} \, d\tau <v(t''-\tau)v(t'')>##

But that's not the same, is it?
 

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  • pdmRbKa.png
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SchroedingersLion said:
I am searching for an explanation that connects the mean squared displacement in an ensemble of particles to the velocity autocorrelation functions.

I'm not sure how to best answer- there are lots of online materials that work through it, but let's just start with the Fourier-transformed position x(ω) = v(ω)/iω. Then, <[Δx(t)]2> = <v2>t2. Note, <v2 is not the same as the velocity autocorrelation function: for a Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution at temperature T,

<v(t)v(t')> = (v02-T/m)e-γ(t+t')+T/m e-γ|t-t'|

and
<[x(t)-x(t')]2>=##<[\int_{t'}^t \, dt_1 v(t_1) ]^2>##

Does that help?
 
Andy Resnick said:
I'm not sure how to best answer- there are lots of online materials that work through it, but let's just start with the Fourier-transformed position x(ω) = v(ω)/iω. Then, <[Δx(t)]2> = <v2>t2. Note, <v2 is not the same as the velocity autocorrelation function: for a Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution at temperature T,

<v(t)v(t')> = (v02-T/m)e-γ(t+t')+T/m e-γ|t-t'|

and
<[x(t)-x(t')]2>=##<[\int_{t'}^t \, dt_1 v(t_1) ]^2>##

Does that help?

Thank you, but not really... I would like to understand it without Fourier or Maxwell Boltzmann, as it should be a more trivial connection, see my calculation above.
 

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