Equivalence of tipping conditions on an inclined plane

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions for tipping a cube on an inclined plane, specifically examining whether the tipping condition is equivalent to the gravitational force acting outside the base of the cube while also considering the role of friction in preventing sliding. The scope includes theoretical reasoning and mathematical modeling of static equilibrium.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the tipping condition as related to unbalanced torque around the center of mass, influenced by normal and frictional forces.
  • Another participant asserts that an object can slide without tipping, suggesting a distinction between sliding and tipping conditions.
  • A participant presents a specific example involving a cuboid and calculates the angle at which the gravitational force acts outside the base, questioning if this angle coincides with the tipping condition.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need to verify that the friction force can be sufficiently large to prevent sliding before concluding about tipping.
  • A later reply proposes that if it is known that the object will not slide, it may be sufficient to find the angle at which the gravitational line of action leaves the base of the cuboid.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between sliding and tipping conditions, with some arguing for a clear distinction while others explore potential equivalences. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the sufficiency of conditions for tipping versus sliding.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the static case and the adequacy of friction force, which are not fully verified in the discussion.

ChessEnthusiast
Messages
115
Reaction score
3
We have a cube on an inclined plane.
The tipping condition is the presence of an unbalanced torque relative to the center of mass (contributing forces are: the normal force and the force of friction).

However, is this conditions equivalent to the previous one:
The line of action of the force of gravity points outside the base of the cube AND the force of friction is large enough to prevent the cube from sliding?

If not, it it easy to think of a simple counterexample?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
An object can slide without tipping over.
 
Let's say I have a cuboid with sides $a$, $a$ and $3a$.
The distance of the line of action of the force of friction from the center of gravity is $\frac 3 2 a$
As for the reaction force, the maximal distance will be $\frac a 2$.
We are considering the static case. Therefore, the force of friction:
$$F_f = mg \sin(\theta)$$
And the normal force
$$F_n = mg \cos(\theta)$$
In the language of torques:
$$\frac{3}{2}a mg \sin(\theta) = \frac{1}{2}a mg \cos(\theta)$$
$$3 sin(\theta) = cos(\theta)$$
$$\tan(\theta) = \frac{1}{3}$$
$$\theta = 18 \deg$$
This is exactly the same angle that I get when I try to work out the situation when the force of gravity is getting outside the base of the cuboid (once again, I'm considering the static case).
Is it a coincidence?
 

Attachments

  • cube3.PNG
    cube3.PNG
    2.9 KB · Views: 518
ChessEnthusiast said:
We are considering the static case.
You cannot just assume this. You need to verify that you can get a friction force that is large enough.
 
Suppose that I know that the object will not slide - is it, then, sufficient to find the angle that causes the line of action to leave the base of the cuboid?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
5K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
6K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
5K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
5K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
9K
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K