Eval op amp achieves +/- power from single power supply?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the operation of an evaluation module for an operational amplifier (op-amp) that appears to function with a single power supply while providing a differential voltage. Participants explore the implications of this setup, particularly in relation to traditional dual power supply configurations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how the evaluation module can achieve a differential voltage with a single power supply, noting that typically a dual power supply is required.
  • Another participant questions the validity of the power supply representation in the provided documentation, suggesting that without a clear schematic, the operation of the op-amp cannot be reliably predicted.
  • A participant confirms they successfully operated the evaluation module using only one side of the power supply, but another participant seeks clarification on whether this was done without certain connections.
  • It is noted that while the op-amp worked in single supply mode, it struggled with large offsets, and performance improved when switched to dual mode.
  • Another participant points out that op-amps can function with varying voltage levels as long as input signals meet certain margin requirements, and mentions that some op-amps operate well even at 3.3V without a negative supply.
  • Concerns are raised about potential input protection diodes or alternative paths from inputs to supply rails, which could lead to poor performance due to variable load and supply conditions, potentially causing distortion in output.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the operation of the op-amp with a single power supply. There are competing views regarding the functionality and reliability of the evaluation module under different configurations.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the schematic representation of the power supply and the implications of using a single power supply versus a dual power supply. There are unresolved questions about the specific conditions under which the op-amp operates effectively.

Helmholtzerton
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Picture for reference is below.

I'm confused as to how this is able to receive a differential voltage of +/- from a single power supply. (Yes, I know the picture says dual power supply.)

Normally I have to short the negative to ground on one side of a dual power supply, and short the positive on the other side of a power supply in order to get a +/- Vpower to an op amp.

I actually wired up this evaluation module with just using one side of a power supply and it worked. There were no rails on either side.

Looking at the circuit board: http://www.ti.com/lit/ug/slou148/slou148.pdf

I'm not entirely sure how it is able to do this, or how the circuit would look.
Circuit Question.png
 
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The little photo in your attachment that represents a power supply of some type does not really mean anything. It SAYS "Dual Power Supply". But how would it be drawn on a schematic if it were a battery or several batteries? If you don't know, then you cannot know whether your op-amp can work or not and cannot expect any predictable results.
 
Helmholtzerton said:
I actually wired up this evaluation module with just using one side of a power supply and it worked.
Are you saying you connected the board to your power supply but omitted the blue connection, and found the differential amplifier on the board still operated as normal under every test you devised?
 
NascentOxygen said:
Are you saying you connected the board to your power supply but omitted the blue connection, and found the differential amplifier on the board still operated as normal under every test you devised?

All the connections where made, however the op amp could not handle much of an offset.

Then when I hooked up in dual mode the op amp operated as expected when applying a large offset on one signal.
 
Helmholtzerton said:
I actually wired up this evaluation module with just using one side of a power supply and it worked. There were no rails on either side.
I'm not sure that I understood this part.

Anyway, the '+' and '-' are not fixed for an opamp. All it requires is that the input signals should be higher than '-' and lower than '+' by a specified margin. If this fits, then it'll work and produce an output voltage higher than '-' and lower than '+'.

There are opamps which will work even from 3.3V (without any negative power supply) perfectly, without any hitch.
 
There also may be input protection diodes or another path from the input to the supply rails. You will essentially be powering the device from the input signal. This will give very poor results as the load on your input will not be constant and your power supply will also not be constant and generally below the peaks of your signal. Check for major distortion on your output.

BoB
 

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