Everett and Gell-Mann at the notable Massagon(?) meeting

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the historical context and details of a meeting referred to as the "Massagon meeting," where physicist Murray Gell-Mann commented on Hugh Everett's contributions to quantum mechanics. Participants explore the significance of this meeting, its location, and the connections between Everett and Gell-Mann, as well as the broader implications of Everett's work in the field of quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Historical
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express uncertainty about the existence and details of the "Massagon meeting," questioning whether it is a real place or event.
  • Others suggest that Gell-Mann's comments about Everett may relate to a seminar in Austin in 1977 or meetings in Europe, indicating a timeline of Everett's later recognition.
  • A participant mentions a book titled "What is Real?" by Adam Becker, which discusses Everett's connection with Gell-Mann but critiques its lack of mathematical content.
  • There is a proposal that the meeting might refer to the NATO Workshop on the Physical Origin of Time Asymmetry held in Mazagon, Spain, in October 1991, with some participants agreeing this could be the correct reference.
  • One participant notes that Everett had passed away by the time of the meeting, raising questions about how Gell-Mann could have learned about Everett's ideas there.
  • Another participant speculates that Gell-Mann may have discussed Everett's work with John Wheeler, who was also present at the meeting.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the specifics of the "Massagon meeting," with multiple competing views about its identity and significance remaining unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unclear references to the meeting's location and participants, as well as the ambiguity surrounding the timeline of Everett's recognition in the academic community.

pines-demon
Science Advisor
Gold Member
Messages
1,020
Reaction score
862
While discussing at https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...ng-of-probability-in-mwi.1059618/post-7054892 somebody posted this video:


where Gell-Mann in a interview with Geoffrey West discusses the contributions of Everett. He says in the transcript:
I was not aware, and I don't think Felix was aware either, of the work of Everett when he was a graduate student at Princeton and worked on this, what some people have called 'many worlds' idea, suggested more or less by Wheeler. Apparently Everett was, as we learned at the Massagon meeting, Everett was an interesting person. He… it wasn't that he was passionately interested in quantum mechanics; he just liked to solve problems, and trying to improve the understanding of quantum mechanics was just one problem that he happened to look at.

What is this Massagon meeting? Who learned about it? Is Massagon even a place?
I think the transcript is wrong but I cannot tell what was meant here.
 
Science news on Phys.org
pines-demon said:
Kind of off topic, but what is the "Massagon meeting"?
As Gell-Mann mentions in the interview, Hugh Everett left academia after receiving his PhD. Years later Everett was invited to speak at a physics seminar in Austin in 1977 then was invited to speak at meetings in Europe. That could be the basis for Gell-Mann's comment.

Everett died of a heart attack in 1982 before his ideas became more widely known among academics and interested public.
 
Klystron said:
As Gell-Mann mentions in the interview, Hugh Everett left academia after receiving his PhD. Years later Everett was invited to speak at a physics seminar in Austin in 1977 then was invited to speak at meetings in Europe. That could be the basis for Gell-Mann's comment.

Everett died of a heart attack in 1982 before his ideas became more widely known among academics and interested public.
[Note I asked mentors to move your comment here]

Do you have any sources?
 
pines-demon said:
[Note I asked mentors to move your comment here]

Do you have any sources?
Coincidentally I had just read a history of quantum physics titled "What is Real?" by Adam Becker, Basic Books 2018. Everett's connection with Gell-Mann is mentioned after page 250.

I cannot actually recommend this book as it does not meet PF's requirements for texts. Also, despite mentioning mathematics and equations frequently, the author includes no mathematics. This frustrating lack of math seems increasingly common among popular science articles and books.

Becker has a knack for describing physics history in immediate terms but tends to repeat events and experiments from (slightly) different viewpoints. His thumbnail sketches of Everett, John Bell, and David Bohm, among others, make this book quite readable.
 
I wonder if Everett was in Moscow, he talks about Moscow earlier:
 
Frabjous said:
How about the NATO Workshop on the Physical Origin of Time Asymmetry, Mazagon, Spain, October 1991?
https://www.amazon.com/Physical-Origins-Time-Asymmetry-Halliwell/dp/0521568374/?tag=pfamazon01-20
That's looks like it! Matches the sounding. Great find.

Edit: Here is another description of the meeting: https://prce.hu/w/preprints/spain.html It has Wheeler and Gell-Mann, if I can find any of the two books maybe I can check if Everett was there, but maybe it was Wheeler that presented Everett's theory.

Edit: It is not another book it is just a review of the book? I am not sure.
 
Last edited:
  • #10
pines-demon said:
That's looks like it! Matches the sounding. Great find.

Edit: Here is another description of the meeting: https://prce.hu/w/preprints/spain.html It has Wheeler and Gell-Mann, if I can find any of the two books maybe I can check if Everett was there, but maybe it was Wheeler that presented Everett's theory.
Everett was dead. I believe that Wheeler was no longer a proponent.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: pines-demon
  • #11
Frabjous said:
Everett was dead. I believe that Wheeler was no longer a proponent.
Oh right. I still think this is the one. I do not know how Gell-Mann learned about Everett there, but possibly just by discussing with Wheeler. When I will have time I will dig into it. For the moment, I declare the mystery to be solved. Thanks.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Frabjous
  • #12
pines-demon said:
Oh right. I still think this is the one. I do not know how Gell-Mann learned about Everett there, but possibly just by discussing with Wheeler. When I will have time I will dig into it. For the moment, I declare the mystery to be solved. Thanks.
DeWitt was there.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: pines-demon

Similar threads

  • · Replies 30 ·
2
Replies
30
Views
5K
  • · Replies 51 ·
2
Replies
51
Views
7K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
4K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 50 ·
2
Replies
50
Views
9K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
5K